When talking of the Syrian refugees, this is the image that comes first, to most people’s minds. 
But this is an image which many would rather not consider, when discussing the issue of whether or not the United States should allow Syrian refugees into this country. Why? Because if you consider the fact that this image is also the face of the crisis in Syria, then to demand our government turn the refugees away, would mean that you are willing to condemn this little girl and many like her to a life of terror.
We here in Delaware are also debating whether or not the state should accept any of the estimated 10,000 Syrian refugees into the state. Our Governor, Jack Markell has stated without equivocation, if the federal government were to ask Delaware to take them, he is prepared to do so.
This has led to, like in many states, an outcry from largely Republican lawmakers, that the Governor reverse his position. This, while many have admitted, the Governor has no position to refuse, if the federal government, who is in charge of immigration, decides to place them in our state.
So why would these lawmakers make these request and or demands of the governor, if they know it is pointless? Well one can only think it is political. If we look at the list of governors who have made a show of announcing they will not accept refugees, we see it populated by mostly Republicans.
I have to say as a Republican, it troubles me that my chosen party would take this position on what should be a humanitarian issue, and turn it into a political opportunity.
Of course it may all be a case of “Keeping Up With The Kardashians”, or at least the latest Kardashian, “Donald Kardashian”. Donald Trump has been using the phrase, “Trojan Horse” to infer that the refugees will be nothing but a cover for terrorist, to come into this country and launch Paris type attacks. Of course this is a real and present danger. The same, as it is a real and present danger that a terrorist may simply walk across either our Northern or Southern borders. That a terrorist might come into this country on a legitimate student visa. The fact that the terrorist want to attack us is nothing new, and has nothing to do with refugees.
Presidential candidate, Ted Cruz is actually proposing legislation to ban Syrian Muslim refugees from entering the U.S.. I’m sorry, but has the senator forgotten a little thing called the Constitution and the First Amendment?
There is also a loud outcry from citizens who would send that little girl above, back to what might be a certain death, or at the very least, a future of terror.
I am having a little trouble understanding how so many of the same people, who talk so much about being Christians, and this being a Christian nation, and about how this nation was Founded upon Christian values, can in this case find so many reason to turn a blind eye towards their fellow-man in need.
Some will state the risk of attacks as a reason to deny entry to the refugees. And again, that is a risk. But how many of our first responders and service men and women will run headlong into danger to save a child’s life, or a brother in arms’ life? How is this different? We as a nation are being asked to take a risk, to save the lives of people whose lives are in danger, people who are our brothers and sisters of man.
Some will tell you it is about the economics of it, that these refugees will be getting benefits that citizens can’t get, and that we can’t afford it. Well, I will agree that this nation already spends a lot, okay, too much, on providing services to people who should be working and supporting themselves. But that is a problem with the system, and I do not believe it is a reason to close our hearts.
I have often heard many saying, we should not help the refugees until we have solved the homeless problem, and until our veterans are cared for. In a conversation today, I was told of children living in tents here in Delaware in the winter, and the point was, we shouldn’t, or can’t, help the refugees until these children are taken care of.
Let me say, people living in tents, or being hungry and homeless in the United States of America is shameless. But it is no excuse for closing our heart to the plight of these refugees.
It is easy for Christians to talk about their Christian values, but it is much harder to actually live them.
” Matthew 5:43-48
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”
It is easy to love your brother, when it is your brother. It is easy to forgive your wife. But to forgive and love those who are different from you, or who “MAY” want to do you harm, is a much greater challenge.
Fear is the greatest enemy of doing the right thing. When we fear something, it makes it very hard to see past that fear. We have every right to fear another attack like 9/11, or Paris type attacks. But if we are going to talk of Christian values, and call ourselves a Christian nation, then we must put those fears aside. I hold two thing to be true about my faith in Allah, and Christ as my savior. One is that God will protect me. And two, my name was written in the book long ago, and if God judges it is my time to go, then there is nothing man can do to stop it, and if that time is at the hands of a terrorist, then God must have a reason.
I believe this is where many “Christians” fall short. Because while they say they believe in God, they fear meeting him. If you truly believe in the one true God, and that he is the Alpha and Omega, then have no fear.
America has a long, and I think, an honorable history of helping people in need. Yes, sometimes at the risk of our own safety. When the Cuban refugees were fleeing Castro, we heard that they were the criminals, and the residents of the insane asylums, and that there were spies coming in with them, and maybe there were. However, we have a thriving and positive, and productive community of people of Cuban heritage in this nation, who are some of our most conservative citizens. We even have the son of Cuban parents, who came to the U.S. just prior to Castro’s take over, running for President, Marco Rubio.
We heard many of the same concerns about the boat people from Vietnam, a country we had fought a war against. This too is now a community, in many cases that has grown to be small business owners and more.
There is a knee jerk reaction in this nation to resist accepting people into this country. We saw it with the South American orphans that showed up on the border, and we saw the same outcry here in Delaware when Gov. Markell accepted some of them into Delaware. Hell, we see it every time a new development is proposed.
What better way to spread democracy, and Liberty around the globe? Than by example. Instead of being the ugly Americans, that ISIS tells Muslims we are, instead of acting like the Great Satan, what if we welcomed these refugees into our nation? What if a child of ten or eleven came from a war-torn home, where life was a daily exercise of just staying out of the way of the ISIS terrorist, the Syrian Army of President Assad, the Russian bombs, the U.S. bombs, and now the French bombs. And instead they were exposed to the freedoms of America. They were sent to school, they could see what freedom means here, and what if, some day, they went back to their homeland and took the message of Liberty with them?
Personally I think that is a risk worth taking.
” Surah 2:62
62. Those who believe (in the Qur’an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. “
We are all children of Abraham
The National Association of Evangelicals has made a similar statement.
They are right on this one, as are you.
Indiana’s governor just refused entry to a family with a shopkeeper, his wife and a four year old boy, who have been through the months-long process to qualify. How anyone can do such a thing on the eve of Thanksgiving and call themselves a “Christian” is unfathomable.
These fake Christians have no faith in their own God, and no respect for their own Jesus.
“What if a child of ten or eleven came from a war-torn home, where life was a daily exercise of just staying out of the way of the ISIS terrorist, the Syrian Army of President Assad, the Russian bombs, the U.S. bombs, and now the French bombs.” – Frank
Russian bombs, U.S. bombs, French bombs….. reflect a dangerous lack of imagination in the highest offices in supposedly “advanced” and “civilized” nations.
The solution to the problem of people killing people, is NOT to kill more people.
What so many well intentioned people are not understanding is the distinctive differences between the actions/responsibilities of the Individual and the actions/responsibilities of the Government. The Government has the authority and responsibility to wage war, accuse and prosecute criminals, punish criminals – up to and including capital punishment, and all kinds of other sorts of activities that we as Christian citizens do not have. So, imo, if the Government decides to allow immigrants to come here, we have a Christian responsibility to them – the same as we do to everyone. BUT – the Government has a different responsibility in this situation – that being FIRST and foremost, the safety and security of their citizens and their borders. This is a Government decision, and our current responsibility is to pray for wisdom and direction on behalf of our leadership – in this matter and in all decisions. The bottom line is that the response and responsibility of the Individual is significantly different than the response and responsibility of the Government and they may be completely opposite of each other from time to time.
So, Bob, this whole notion of using so-called “Christian values” as a governing principle is not such a good idea. Is that it?
Sounds like some people are quite comfortable saying, “There’s no room at the inn.”
Good post Frank,, we are dangerously close to being in complete agreement. I accept your premises and would only add that we should insist that our governor show some love to our own disadvantaged, even if only not running the tent people off and perhaps sparing them a porta-potty or several. Not that we should make it a pre-condition but we should demand better for our own as we do our humanitarian duty as Americans and children of God.
So you’re joining IPOD now right? 😀
Actually Frank, that’s a very good question. I believe that the answer is “yes”, with an understanding that sometimes an individual’s responsibility is different than the Government’s responsibility – and both can be operating within “Christian Values” at the same time. For instance: if someone stole from you and was later caught by the police and then apologizes to you, what is your “Christian responsibility” to them? I think most would agree that scripture says that your responsibility is to forgive them. But should the Government’s responsibility be the same? I don’t think so. Governments and governmental authorities are established for a different reason and have different responsibilities. It would be the Government’s responsibility to pursue justice (and God is a God of justice) but your responsibility is to forgive. So in this scenario, while the actions of the Individual and the Government are completely opposite, both are exercising “Christian values”.
Another example of individual vs group responsibility is this: I may compromise a level of personal safety by stopping and picking up a hitchhiker when I am driving by myself and that is an acceptable – and perhaps commendable – thing to do. However, it would not be an acceptable or commendable thing for me to do if i was driving a school bus loaded with children. Why? Because I am now making a personal, unilateral decision that compromises other people’s safety without their consent – and that is not right.
So I believe that there are situations in which the actions of an individual may differ from that of government and yet both are the “right” decisions.
I will also say that I agree with you that this situation is being politicized by both sides – and that simply adds to the tragedy that already is beyond comprehension.
“The Government has the authority and responsibility to wage war, accuse and prosecute criminals, punish criminals” – Bob Mitchell
Bob,
Fleeing a war zone does not mean you’re a criminal.
Absolutely correct. I was not at all trying to say that these immigrants are criminals – I firmly believe that the majority of them are simply victims of this evil. I was only pointing out some specific government functions that are requirements of an effective government, but are not the responsibility of the Individual. There was not meant to be any insinuation that these refugees are criminals. Sorry for any confusion there.
Bob, thank you for your well thought out and expressed points. However, and you knew there was going to be a however. While we may agree that the individual and government are two separate entities, I disagree that they have separate responsibilities.
We live in a representative republic, as you know this means the people we elect are “supposed” to represent the views and the will of the people, notice I said supposed to, we can talk of the failure of that another time.
As I said in the post, “There is also a loud outcry from citizens who would send that little girl above, back to what might be a certain death, or at the very least, a future of terror.”
So, if the people are crying out to refuse entry to the refugees, then government I guess should respond likewise. This is where I have a problem. Because here in my little corner of Delaware we call Sussex, and from what I am seeing on national media, it seems to be the same people who have lamented about the so called war on Christians, who tell us we need to put God back in the schools.
To use your analogy. If I am robbed, and the police catch the thief, I may as a Christian forgive him. But also, I have the right as a citizen to not press charges, thus the government is not the deciding factor of whether or not he is prosecuted or not, I am. That is unless he broke the speed limit leaving my home.
But in this case, political emotions have gotten out in front on this issue, and now the lines are drawn. Democrats are for it, Republicans are against it. And instead of “reason” deciding the issue, they are all seeking for “reasons” to support their decisions.
We never know when God will come to us, or in what guise. What if one of these refugees were Jesus, what if this is a test of our nation? If we turn these strangers from our door, have we admitted to not only the world as well as ourselves, but to God, we have no faith in you Father.
(Great post, Frank. Made me think)
When I got married, I was so scared… i was committing for life.. What if I discovered a truer love I liked better afterward? What if my partner cheated on me and I never knew? What if they stole my money, then ran off? What if they got mad at me and shot me in my sleep? Though all those possibilities “could have happened” I decided to trust God and go forward…. It’s been an amazing adventure..
When it was time to have children, I was so scared. What would it do to the body? What if childbirth led to death? (people still die you know.) What if it ruined my relationship with my spouse and I became a single parent losing half of what I had? What if we both went bankrupt because I wasn’t able to work? But I decided to trust God and go forward and It’s been an amazing adventure..
When it was time to buy our house… I was so scared… We’d be paying on it for 30 years… I’d be in my 60’s before it was over. What if I lost my job. What if my spouse lost their job? Why were we adding additional expenses when we could barely make ends meet as a start-up family? But I decided to trust God and go forward….It’s been an amazing adventure..
And God, bless his heart, did whatever he does behind the scenes… it all somehow worked…
With this refugee crises we don’t know if all those coming in are safe… With this refugee crises we don’t know what potential harm could become us… with this refugee crises we don’t know what the future will bring…. but we do know that all in charge will do their utmost best to make sure we don’t import terror or thugs, or criminals, because if we were in charge, we know that we’d do all we could to vet every refugee as safe… But nothing is hundred percent… In life, nothing in life is a hundred percent…
As Christians, we have a duty. As Jesus himself specifically pointed out in the Good Samaritan, we have choices… And Jesus was specific in his description of those passing by the beaten man, by having all them mention their worldly concerns and safety as a precaution to keep them from assisting, many of which mentioned by Jesus directly mimic the attitudes of members of both parties who now choose to rely on their fear of the unknown, instead of the fear of our Gracious Lord and Father whose command in this case was explicit and unambiguous.
We have often called ourselves a Christian nation… yet, we disobey a very specific parable paralleling our situation today. The world is watching, and if we are indeed a Christian nation, or indeed a moral nation, then we have no choice but to meet this test put before us by our most Gracious Loving Father…..
We have no more guarantee from God that we won’t have a terrorist slip through, than we have from Him we will continue to live after our drive down Rt 1 or Rt 13 or Rt 113 to Wal*mart and back for groceries… But we do what we have to do…. If we are indeed a Christian nation.. If we are indeed a nation of people moved to a degree by our religion, then as sanctioned by God,we need to act like it.
I am immensely proud to stand with my American brothers and sisters in any party, any religion, any persuasion and demand that the principles of this great moral nation overtake our fear of unknown possibilities. That together, Republican and Democrat, Jew and Gentile, Christian or Muslim, we show the world that yes, we are THAT nation who does trust God with all our hearts fully knowing he has delivered us through so many past traumas and cataclysms before, and that yes, we do believe He does so, both because He loves us, and because He approves of who we are… good, basic people who treat all mankind with kindness, dignity, and respect.
Good article to bring up an important discussion. But the problem is this is not a strictly black and white situation. There are “gray” areas. I bet the majority of people who agree, currently, that there should be a halt in accepting these refugee’s would feel better about opening the doors again when there was a concrete, transparent strategy. There is no trust in our Government because the way Obama has been functioning or NOT functioning. Frank you throw out the picture of the little girl to tug at the heart strings. Of course majority of people want to help her, but there is nothing wrong with wanting a plan for our children’s safety before action. There are more little boys and girls like that in other parts of the world besides Syria, a whole lot more than just 10,000. So do we take all of them in with no plan? So do we just open our borders and take all of them from everywhere? The point is valid that we ensure the safety of our citizens and the point is also valid that we want to be a country the helps those who suffer outside our borders. So I believe there is nothing wrong with people standing up to our so called leaders and demanding safety, transparency and a strategy. We hear some Governors like Chris Christie saying that some refugee’s in the past were put in his state without giving any information to him. So of course many of us feel fearful that the situation is out of control with Obama when Governor’s are not even being properly informed. One more point. There is a post going around FB talking about Steve Jobs being the son of a Syrian and if there were no Steve Jobs in our country there would be no Apple. Well what could those who died in 911 possibly created and invented? This point goes both ways. So again I’ll say this is not all one way or the other. Also Bob made an excellent point in that when you take a risk for yourself is different than choosing to take a risk and involving others. I am a Christian and I believe we should help those who are in need and suffer. In addition I want a plan and strategy to ensure great measures are being taken to vet and ensure the safety of our little boys and girls here as well. I understand there are no guarantee’s, but our Government could be doing a WHOLE LOT MORE to show us they have a solid strategy to do both. Since they are currently not doing that, I understand the concern and feel is myself.
Please understand Frank, we both want (and I believe that the vast majority of Americans want) to extend safety and compassion to those who are in this situation. We just want, as Vivian expressed, our elected officials to “have a plan and a strategy” to balance compassion for the alien with safety for its citizens. And Kavips is right that “we” are to trust God in all aspects of “our” lives. But while we are told to be “gentle as doves”, we are also told to be as “wise as serpents”. There are more than just two options in this situation. It does not have to be “everybody come on in” or “everybody go back home”. The justifiable concern of many is that those charged with overseeing the protection of their citizens are doing everything in their power to do just that, and if there is to be an err, it will be on the side of ensuring the safety of its citizens. There is a balance between compassion and security that must be found. In the same way that Mercy must be paired with Justice; and Grace be balanced with Truth, the delicate balance of National Compassion must be reconciled with a National Security. To not do so would be foolish at best and political malpractice at worst.
Middle Eastern nations should take the refugees. Period.
The majority of Americans oppose U.S. settlement for Syrians. Period.
Thanks to all. To Vivian and Bob. We are in agreement that we as a nation should take all precautions to insure our safety. Short of the xenophobic rhetoric and actions playing out in the media and the halls of Congress as we speak.
Vivian points out that we don’t trust our government, true and with reason, that Vivian is where and when we must rust in God and his word.
We as the children of the one true God of Abraham either believe all is God’s will, or that there is no God.
Of course we can’t take in the world, but we have a moral obligation to do what we can.
Vivian and Bob, you are both intelligent people and I would bet compassionate as well. If you were walking down the street and saw someone in danger, would you not do all in your power to save them?
i would bet the majority of people in this nation would also. So why as a whole should we value one life over another.
I hear your heart, Frank, but I cannot agree with your statement that we must “either believe all is God’s will, or that there is no God”. Obviously things happen in this world that are Not God’s will. If everything that happens here on earth is God’s will, then why did Jesus tell his disciples to pray and ask for “..Thy will be done on earth as it is on heaven.” if His will was already being done here? No… I cannot agree that what is happening in Paris, the rest of Europe, and in the Middle East is God’s will – that is man’s will coupled with a very skewed idea of who God is and what it takes to please Him. Can and does God work thru these events? Absolutely. But, unless I took your statement out of context, I cannot agree that the evil being perpetuated here in this world at this time is His will…
But Bob, God placed the evil of temptation here in the form of Satan. So even the evil that is done here by man because of temptation is a part of God’s will.
Mary, Joe, and Jesus had the three wise men bringing gold, myrrh, and frankincense. The refugees are bringing terrorists with suicide vests wanting to kill Americans. They’re also coming with a price tag to the American taxpayers, that we already can not afford. I do appreciate your article and point of view Frank. Well thought out and written, I just happen to be biased when it comes to the lives of my family and I.
We have millions of illegal immigrants from Mexico currently living in the United States. We have no clear system for dealing with these people or dealing with the thousands that are continuing to poor over our border every year. We have impoverished families living in Appalachia, the Native American Reservations, inner cities and other areas of the US. We have cities like Detroit, Ferguson, Baltimore and Wilmington that are urban war zones. We are at a critical mass. It would be irresponsible to bring these refugees to the US before we have a clear solution for our current domestic problems. Charity is supposed to begin at home. I sincerely want to help the refugees in Syria and Darfur and all of the war torn areas of the world. But why are we not considering other solutions? Why are we not trying to help these people to regain control of their own communities? Why are we not helping them to build strong safe communities in their own homelands?
Oohh… a Calvinist to the extreme. Well, if I follow your reasoning, then the whole refugee dilemma just solved itself… We simply need to say to them, “Sorry guys, the miserable situation that you find yourselves in is God’s will and we don’t want to mess with that, so Good Luck!”
Oh, and by the way, parents and children of those who were brutally murdered, there’s no reason to be upset – it was God’s will, so relax…
I know that these are extremes and (I don’t know you well, but) I don’t believe that is how you see it, but if everything that happens in this world is automatically God’s will, then there is never a reason to pray, never a reason to plan, never a reason to wear a seat belt or even look both ways before crossing the street. I know some people who say they are Calvinists, but still lock their door at night, so I’m not convinced! Lol!
Frank, I’m promoting handling the situation responsibly. Not choosing one life over another. There are women and children being tortured in the Congo living in horrific situations. There are countries where women are commonly brutally raped over and over with nowhere safe to turn and where young girls commonly endure genital mutilation. With Somalia having the highest percentage of FGM (Female Genital Mutilation) why are we not bringing those children here? Isn’t that choosing one life over another? Seems like there is a lot of “choosing” going on in our country and around the world.
If it would be the will of Allan or God for you to die if you died in the hands of a terrorist could it not be the will of God for them to die too! If it is his will of God for that little girl to come here it will happen.
Good old red-blooded Americans manage to shoot other Americans at a rate of around 18,000 a year.
Even if we were to slam the door to 9,995 refugees, because 5 of them might do something on the scale of the Paris attacks, that wouldn’t even be a blip in violent crime statistics. A certain percentage of any group of people contains violent criminals. The guy who shot up the theater in Colorado didn’t need any particular ideology. He was, like all mass murders, an ordinary nut with weapons.
Vivian, the US admitted 22,500 refugees from Africa in 2015 and 85,000 refugees from around the world overall.
Thank you Meatball, yes I’m aware. We have also admitted Syrian and other refugees in the past as well. A report shows 2200 Syrians have been admitted to US since 2011. My point was to challenge the “choosing” comment Frank continues to bring up. There are soooo many people in desperate need living in inhumane conditions in addition to the Syrian refugees. I’m saying we can’t help every single one of them so isn’t this discussion regarding the Syrian refugees “choosing”?? I’m not saying that since we can’t help everyone to not help at all, but I am saying we need to understand not only our security but our resources to be responsible in our efforts to help. So we are ABLE to help whether it’s Syrians, Africans or other. I don’t like all the talk be about the Syrian refugees while there are other human’s suffering just as much around the world.
If I were going to cripple the USA, I would attack the weaknesses. One of our biggest is our PC attitude. ISIS does not need a Trojan Horse, they only need our naive PC attitude to let them in. Our Government can’t even protect our our SS#’s, let alone vet a Syrian Refugee. Read the following for how their already coming in.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3322649/The-enemy-Nearly-SEVENTY-arrested-America-ISIS-plots-include-refugees-given-safe-haven-turned-terror.html
“The majority of Americans oppose U.S. settlement for Syrians. Period.”
About two-thirds of Americans have opposed refugees from every nation, under every circumstance, whenever they have been polled.
Unlike Rick, most Americans have the ability to revise their opinions when they are wrong. Rick is too busy washing the panic poop out of his underwear to rethink anything.
“Russell Moore, the president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention, told BuzzFeed News on Thursday that he was shocked by the “overheated” rhetoric being employed by high-profile politicians in the wake of the terrorist attacks in Paris.”
Between the Southern Baptists, the National Association of Evangelicals, and various Catholic organizations, it seems that the GOP field is charging boldly away from the religious right.
Suspect, I too value the lives of my family and friends. But you are judging these people based on fear. Is there the chance that terrorist may use the refugees for cover? Yes.
But what is more likely? That they would go through whatever process a refugee would to come into the country, or simply use fake papers which we know they are capable of producing?
What about the real danger of the terrorist that are already here?
No Suspect, I believe this is a case of our politicians getting out in front of this and making it an election year issue.
By the way, when was the last time you heard a story about Ebola? Remember when that was going to kill thousands? Remember the outcry then also about blocking people from coming here? Where are those stories now?
Laura, all of the domestic issues you listed are real. The difference between the refugees and the illegal immigrants, is that we are allowing the refugees to come here, they have broken no law, other than to be Muslim. As for the citizens in this country who are struggling, and your “charity begins at home” view. Well I have to tell you, charity begins at home always sounded a bit selfish to me. It is no great thing to give to those you love already. Charity is about caring for those who need your help, I am not sure it should depend solely upon you nation of origin.
Bob, as I said, the evil in the world is God’s will in the sense that he placed Satan here to temp man. It is when man turns from God’s love and towards temptation that evil wins. I don’t know about you, but I don’t pray for outcomes, or to not be hit by a car. I pray for the strength, wisdom and patience to see me through theses trying times. The strength to resist temptation. The temptation to give into fear, to turn my heart from my fellow man in selfish fear for my own life. The man who prays for eternal life in this world will never find it in the next.
Vivian, I am not in charge of those decisions, I am talking about the fact that those who were elected have decided to accept these refugees. Let us not loose sight of the fact that these people were fleeing Syria and flooding other nations. If that were allowed to happen, how long before some world leader would use force to repel them? The idea is to relieve the pressure on all nations by sharing the burden. It only works if the people of these nations have charitable hearts. How many refugees have walked out of the Congo?
Chrissy, see my comment to Bob, evil is allowed to have its chance here by the will of God, but if we give into the temptation to allow that evil to occur without doing what we can, then we have become a part of the evil.
Vivian said, ” I don’t like all the talk be about the Syrian refugees while there are other human’s suffering just as much around the world.” Then talk to your elected officials who have decided to make this a “HOT BUTTON TOPIC” .
And by the way, we see this sort of attitude every time we “DECIDE” to help any people, think about the orphans from South America, remember? They were going to end the world as well. When was the last time you heard that discussed? This is just the latest news cycle topic. The media creates an issue, the politicians jump out in front of the parade and say, “look at me, I’m leading the parade!”. The people get excited about it, and then when the next news cycle begins, it starts all over again.
Bob, your link shows only that these people were caught before they could act. And by the way, in our country, simply being sympathetic to a cause is not a crime.
Also Bob, in that article it says, “The threat also comes from within, with American teenagers and Islamic converts among those seduced by the group’s torrent of chilling online propaganda.”
What do you suggest we do to protect from the enemy within? The paranoia surrounding this issue causes many to lose sight of the real issues. Yes, national security, but also, who are we as a nation? Are we the shining star of Liberty, or are we the selfish Americans that the extremist accuse us of being?
Two more reasons that demonstrate the importance of a vigilant government that understands the duty of protecting it’s citizens. Are their innocent refugees seeking asylum? Yes. But there are also those who prove that their belief system is incompatible with our culture.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/16/europe/italy-migrants-christians-thrown-overboard/index.htmlhttp://www.cnn.com/2015/11/20/africa/mali-shooting/index.html
Sorry Bob, your link doesn’t seem to work . I will only say that evidence of evil in the world should move us towards our Christian values, not away from them.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/16/europe/italy-migrants-christians-thrown-overboard/index.html
Apparently the links ran together.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/20/africa/mali-shooting/index.html
It should move “us” towards our Christian values… You are correct – but again, there is a distinct difference between the responsibilities of “us” as individuals and our Government.
Unlike Rick, most Americans have the ability to revise their opinions when they are wrong.
Except they aren’t “wrong.” For example, it has been reported that the “mastermind” of the Paris attacks came in to France as a “refugee.” It is you naive, hapless leftists who are wrong. Is suppose you won’t be satisfied u til the DC subway gets gassed.
Rick is too busy washing the panic poop out of his underwear to rethink anything.
“Panic poop.” I could kick your fat ass any day of the week.
Frank, the point I was making with “charity begins at home” is that we have too many unresolved problems in our “home.” How can we help others if we are currently struggling to help ourselves. If your family was starving, would you let your children starve to save someone else? If there was a fire would you save a stranger before saving your own child? The answer is NO. We need to make sure that everyone in this country has enough food to eat, a safe place to live, adequate/affordable healthcare, education and a job before we can start giving to others. My concern is that our home is a mess and disorganized. That if we bring 1,000 more people into this country we will overburden our already dysfunctional system. We would be doing the refugees a disservice if we bring them here and are not able to provide for them. I understand and sympathize with these Muslim refugees. My grandfather was a Shiite, chased out of Persia and married to a Russian Orthodox Catholic. His heart broke to see what his homeland had become, that he could never return and that he had done nothing to prevent the demise. I am just asking that we look at other solutions for the refugees. I also feel that the refuges could be better served if they had the resources to empower them to reclaim their own homes.
Laura,
“And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. And he called [unto him] his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: For all [they] did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, [even] all her living.”
Oh, and Rick, please refrain from threats of physical violence. Thanks
Frank – You are stuck on an arrogant mindset that the only way to help these refugees is to bring them to the United States and take care of them! Why do you insist that the only way to help these people is by removing them from their home? To bring them to a place that is foreign to them in culture and language? In Sunday school, I was taught that God helps those who help themselves. Isn’t it also Christian to help these refugees to rebuild their own homes? You are being very condescending to these refugees. You insist on treating them as if they are helpless and incapable. Why do you insist on only seeing one solution to this problem?
I’ve seen a lot of cherry picking but I’ve yet to hear any Christians that want to go to Syria to be a missionary. Lets be honest and remember Jesus and the Disciples took the Gospel on the road even knowing they would face persecution.
Next, lets look at the history of refugees. In the 80’s we brought in Cubans. Look what happened to South Florida. It was ridden with gangs and drugs. We took in refugees from the drug lord wars in Latin/South America. Again CA became ridden with gangs and drugs. Remember the LA Riots. Ever heard of MS-13? We can keep going like Irish and Italians back in the 1800s. The point is immigration can’t be too fast, too many or too soon or you will shake up the melting pot. In this case it’s too soon.
Syria’s Government is paralyzed. We can’t vet these refugees. We’d be lucky to find any Government papers. Lets not forget this civil war was caused mostly by the US. ISIS was weaponized mostly by the US. A lot of these terrorist were kids where we went into their country and bombed them probably killing their parents or someone near them. That spurred hate and grew terrorism. The Onion wrote about this in 2003 and they ended up being right. A satirical paper see’s that.
Lastly, you can have a trusted pet dog but it only takes enough hunger to break into the hen house and destroy it. I’m not calling the refugees dogs but that statement has a lot of meanings from financial to physical. So with this I throw the fear mongering statement out of the window. History and wisdom show this is not the right time. The cautious are the wise in this case.
So if you live in a neighborhood that is in ruins from barrel bombs, there’s no infrastructure, no officials, no army, no anything- what exactly would we help them rebuild? One big problem is that people have no idea what is going on in Syria, no idea of the cultural complexities and all they know are smug slogans from talk radio
Trump wants to close every mosque and make Muslims wear the scarlet letter. Is there a tipping point for embarrassment among angry paranoid conservatives? Have you no decency?
Mouse get in the debate with intelligent comments not insults. You add no value to the discussion when you do that.
Ah yes, the political pendulum. How quick people forget. You get what you give, and what the Democrats have given for the past seven years is extreme leftist politics….What, you didn’t think the pendulum would swing back equally as far?
When you push to the extreme you get back the extreme. Welcome to the extreme, and his name is Trump, and it’s got nothing to do with Jesus.
Good point fightingbluehen. Look at all the shamers on the extreme ends of this issue. Those on the one side saying SHAME on you for being concerned about the Syrian refugee’s telling us we are “choosing” or “not valuing life” etc. Even though they are choosing by only helping “some” when a lot more Syrian’s and others are suffering equally in dramatic numbers around the world. It’s like they are saying let’s sprinkle our help here and there just to make ourselves FEEL like we are doing something when in reality you are not even making a dent on the issue of human suffering in Syria and others. Politicians like Carney saying let’s NOT CHOOSE an 18 year old young man because of his gender and age? I’m sure there a plenty of 18 year old young men in Syria who hate ISIS but they must be left behind to suffer? Again let’s bring a few women and children over here to pat ourselves on the back to pretend like we solved all the problems for the Syrians? You choosing to help only some because, like Frank pointed out, this is the “popular” discussion going on right now to help politicians get attention. Then the other side’s extreme, like good ol Rick, who shows an attitude of “screw them all”. Neither extreme makes sense. But the discussion is valuable since many important points were brought up, including Laura’s strategy to help Syrians in their home country as well. It’s not ALL ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. It’s understandable why many citizens do not trust the government and the process. It’s important to question it. Questioning leadership is what YOU are always doing Frank, correct? Questioning authority and others? There is ALWAYS room for improvement. It will never be perfect, but standing up questioning our safety and resources is prudent and productive. I will also say I agree with being a country that is a leader helping those who suffer as well. Realistically we can’t help ALL who suffer like I pointed out, but we SHOULD have processes in place to help in this situation and others as long as we are doing so safely and while understanding any limits to our resources.
The best solution I’ve heard yet came from Trump. He basically said we should create “safe zones” for people in the affected areas, and when we have cleaned out ISIS they could return home.
Return home to what?
Mouse, I agree with Vivian unless you have something intelligent to contribute you should just stay out of this debate.
Oh, and Rick, please refrain from threats of physical violence. Thanks.
Frank. Key word; “could,” not would. But I get your point.
Anyway, Frank, this is what I was responding to:
“Rick is too busy washing the panic poop out of his underwear to rethink anything.”
“Panic poop.” The way I read that statement, fats is intimating that I am a coward. And that required a response.
Geezer is full of and bluster and braggadocio- on the air or on the internet, that is. But I’ve seen him in real life. Like most delusional loudmouths, in real life he’s about as intimidating as a Hostess Creme-Filled Cupcake.
On the subject at hand, just wait. It may be months or years, but eventually we’ll be fighting Islam in the streets. It will be a matter of survival. An unattended melting pot eventually spills over.
My initial post contributed lol
“Trump wants to close every mosque and make Muslims wear the scarlet letter.”
Don’t believe everything that you read or hear, especially from the professional liars who seem to have agreed to kick it up a notch as of late.Take everything you hear with a grain of salt and at least double check the facts…maybe listen to the entire audio in the context of the situation, which was a post speech flag down in an autograph session, and he never really answered the set up questions that reporter asked anyway.
Totally unprofessional and bordering on an outright lie.
How soon people forget this:
http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2015/02/26/alleged-terror-financier-ran-dover-mall-kiosk/24060391/
Laura says, ” Why do you insist that the only way to help these people is by removing them from their home?”
Well Laura, I don’t think this sis a kidnapping situation. I believe the refugees are seeking asylum. Would it be better to leave them in refugee camps in another country, where the aid we send is administered by leaders that may not be the most reputable in nature. Have we not seen enough of that in the past. The aid being horded by these leaders and then sold on the black market, never making it to the refugees?
Would these camps not also be likely to be breeding and recruiting grounds for the terrorist?
Would it not be more in keeping with our values to actually help these people, to show them our Liberties, to show them our compassion, in the hope they would turn away from, not towards the terrorist?
The question of the level of vetting has been one of the touch stones for those opposing the refugees being brought here. It has even been the point made by our elected leaders as to why we should not. Stating that we cannot allow any refugees in until we have a vetting system in place which guarantees that a terrorist won’t or can’t slip through with the refugees.
Using this logic, we can never again hire new teachers until we have a vetting system that guarantees that a pedophile won’t or can’t slip through.
No matter how stringent your vetting system is for either, if a person has never been identified as a pedophile, then the vetting will not identify them as one. The same is true of potential terrorist. If one of the refugees is a terrorist that has not been previously identified, or linked to terrorism, then the most in depth vetting process has no chance to weed them out.
This seems to be a straw man argument simply to placate those who simply want no refugees allowed in, while seeming to be showing compassion by seeming to be open to allowing some in.
I think this is the perfect definition of politicians attempting to play both sides of an issue in an election year.
How many refugees are heading to Muslim countries like Pakistan, Indonesia and Saudi Arabia? Shouldn’t those nations be welcoming displaced Muslims with open arms?
Middle Eastern refugees are not America’s problem. We are already being invaded by an endless stream of refugees from the south. We needn’t exacerbate the situation.
It’s time for Muslim countries to step-up and welcome their brethren.
Rick seems to think, that if we just don’t take any refugees in then, “Middle Eastern refugees are not America’s problem”.
Rick do you buy special sand to hide your head in, or do you just go down to the beach?
The days of isolationism have long passed being viable.
You didn’t explain how Middle Eastern refugees are America’s problem. What about Pakistan? Indonesia? Saudi Arabia? Why are those Muslim nations not welcoming their Islamic brethren with open arms?
The days of isolationism have long passed being viable.
Huh? Refusing to take refugees isn’t “viable?” How so?
Middle Eastern refugees are the Middle East’s problem. Or, they are Islam’s problem. They certainly aren’t America’s problem. And polls show that the majority of Americans agree.
That’s right Rick, leave these people in the pressure cooker of radicalized Islam, and they won’t be a problem down the road. Let us not try to demonstrate our principles, let us just talk about them.
I don’t think the non US citizens (refugees) are subjects of the Constitution, religious persecution is a Legal catagory of consideration for asylum.
From the LATEST FOX News poll released yesterday. Bear in mind, this poll was conducted by two polling firms, one that traditionally serves DEMOCRATS and one that traditionally serves the GOP, and each contacted 50% of those polled.
Here are the details behind those findings:
“Today 66 percent consider the country “at war” with radical Islam, up from 56 percent in January.
The poll asks about Democratic presidential candidates rejecting terms like radical Islam and Islamic terrorists to describe those who committed the Paris attacks. Fifty-six percent think they are doing the wrong thing by refusing to identify clearly the nature of the threat. Thirty-three percent feel Democrats are doing the right thing by being careful not to blame Muslim ideology.
More than 6 in 10 say the U.S. fight against ISIS is going badly (63 percent). At the same time, voters continue to oppose sending a “significant” number of U.S. ground troops to fight the extremists (42 percent favor vs. 51 percent oppose). However, opposition is decreasing; it was 37 percent in favor vs. 57 percent opposed in June.
While 26 percent think the actions of the Obama administration have been “about right” in trying to stop ISIS, most — 65 percent — say Obama hasn’t been aggressive enough. That includes 39 percent of Democrats, 61 percent of independents and 91 percent of Republicans.
Fifty-six percent think it is “very” likely Islamic terrorists will try to attack the United States soon, up from 50 percent who felt that way in January.
Two-thirds of voters — and nearly half of Democrats — oppose the administration’s plan for the U.S. to take in 10,000 Syrian refugees over the next year, and 77 percent think it’s likely at least one of those coming in through this process will be a terrorist who will “succeed in carrying out an attack on U.S. soil.”
The current situation has pushed the president’s job rating to a low point for the year. Forty percent of voters approve of the job Obama is doing, while 54 percent disapprove. It was 45-50 percent earlier this month. Some of the decline comes from Democrats: 78 percent approve now, down from 84 percent (Nov. 1-3, 2015). Overall, Obama’s worst rating was 38 approve vs. 56 disapprove in September 2014.
In the wake of the Paris attacks, terrorism now tops the economy as the most important issue facing the country. Twenty-four percent of voters say terrorism, up from 11 percent in August. Currently 21 percent say the economy is the top issue, down from 30 percent this summer. There’s a substantial gap before foreign policy (7 percent), health care (7 percent), immigration (7 percent) and the deficit (5 percent) are mentioned. Only three percent say climate change is the priority.
So you liberals on this “moderate” (lol) blog can smugly pontificate- to each other. But don’t claim to speak for the American people- they’ve already spoken.
They say the same thing whenever we take in refugees, no matter who they are or what they are fleeing. So what?
Just as you say the same ignorant things with nothing to back it up, no matter what the topic.
I see. The polls don’t follow your narrative, so they’re irrelevant. But the polls do “back me up.” Show me some data to back you up.
For what it’s worth, the majority of Americans also want a secure border.
I can’t help it you don’t have any common sense. Most “liberals” (actually, lockstep conformists) don’t.
2016 will be a foreign policy election. The Obama/Hillary/Kerry track record- in Libya, Egypt, Iraq and Syria- will not impress many Americans.
“….and the oceans will begin to recede, and the planet will begin to heal…”
Suckers.
Yeah yeah, a good portion of the population are uninformed, lack historical perspective, lack empathy and are easily manipulated by the slightest tribal fear mongering by the people they elect. Rubes..
Rick, all the poll proves is that fear has a unifying quality. So people are afraid. Ok! Just because people agree out of fear, does not make it right. If the poll did say that a majority thought it a good idea to bring refugees to the U.S. , would it change your opinion of it? Doubt it. The problem is, everyone’s opinion is just that, an opinion.
But mine are informed opinions lol
Rick, all the poll proves is that fear has a unifying quality.
No, it proves that the American people don’t want to harbor Middle-Eastern refugees.
Because they are frightened. I also notice you didn’t answer my question, if the poll showed the opposite, would it change your view of the refugees?