The following is an email exchange between Sussex County GOP Chairman John Rieley, and Sussex County Councilman Vance Phillips (5th Councilmanic district). First is an email from Chairman Rieley, and then the response of Mr. Phillips.
“On Mar 30, 2014, at 4:56 PM, “John Rieley” <jlrieley@hotmail.com> wrote:
Vance, I received your e-mail regarding party unity and feel I can no longer delay a task that I would prefer I didn’t have to do. I was not able to attend the committee’s last Advisory Board meeting but the topic of your candidacy for the 5th council district came up and it was the unanimous vote of the RD chairs that they would request that you reconsider your candidacy for the 5th Council seat and seriously consider not running.
The position they took is that in light of the pending civil litigation you may be facing and at least the possibility of criminal charges being filed by the Attorney General is that there will be a cloud of uncertainty about your legal status that will almost certainly be exploited by your opponent and possibly the press as well. In the opinion of the Advisory Board, this situation has the strong potential to bring disrepute on the party if we do not take an pro-active moral position and are seen as lending support to your candidacy. I am sure that you perceived less than enthusiastic support as you have been reaching out to members of the committee and this is why.
To underscore their opposition to your candidacy, they have requested that I attempt to meet with or at least communicate with all the elected officials in the county to request that they not support you or withdraw what ever support they have already given. I have not done this and would earnestly prefer not to have to.
I had referenced in earlier communication with you that I believe you will have an extraordinarily difficult race in this cycle. It is the collective opinion of not only the RD chairs but other influential party members up to and including the state chair that 5th district is in jeopardy of being lost especially with the recent announcement of an opponent for you who will likely be a very credible candidate. If for some unforeseen reason, the 4th district race did not go as planned we would would run a high risk of losing control of the county Council.
I hope you understand that I take no pleasure in writing these things because in my opinion you have done excellent service during your tenure on the council. I have argued that it should be the voters decision as to who they want to represent them. Ultimately it will be your choice alone as to whether or not you continue in your candidacy or elect to retire and bow out with grace and your dignity for “personal” reasons which everyone would understand. It would pain me to see the ugly political battle that is likely shaping up.
I feel that I have done what I can to heal the rifts that formed in the party over the past couple of cycles but right now you are in a position to bring far more party unity than I am. I am surprised at your apparent lack of awareness of the political landscape with regard to your own race. This is surprising because you have always been very astute politically.
Vance, I too believe that it is time to get your own house in order. Actions such as sending flowers to Jim Dundas while he was in the hospital expose a blind spot you have. It was not appropriate and could be construed even as more than just inappropriate. I also have to tell you that I took flack over you and Sam dominating the Georgetown Chamber luncheon with the Governor the other day. You both made it difficult for our members to pose their own questions to the governor. I also heard negative feedback over you handing out election literature at the door after the meeting because the chamber strives to be non-partisan and somewhat a-political. The only reason I mention these things is because it relates back to judgement and being politically aware.
If you would like to meet to discuss this further, I would be willing to. I feel confident that you will take into account the considered opinions of your fellow republicans. Please keep me informed of any decisions you come to.
Regards, John Rieley Chair, Sussex County Republican Party”
The response was this,
” From: VANCE PHILLIPS <watermelons@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Responding to your e-mail on party unity
Date: March 30, 2014 7:06:00 PM EDT
To: John Rieley <jlrieley@hotmail.com>
Cc: “freeper7@comcast.net” <freeper7@comcast.net>, Linda Creasy <lindalou358@hotmail.com>, “jdundas@me.com” <jdundas@me.com>, “kfcurrie@gmail.com” <kfcurrie@gmail.com>, “vlcarmean@verizon.net” <vlcarmean@verizon.net>, “naj1020@aol.com” <naj1020@aol.com>, “rob@beachboundde.com” <rob@beachboundde.com>, Miguel <horseppl@aol.com>, Matt Opaliski <m_opaliski@verizon.net>, “t.g.bain@gmail.com” <t.g.bain@gmail.com>, “imstanking@aol.com” <imstanking@aol.com>, “easternsuxrepcl@yahoo.com” <easternsuxrepcl@yahoo.com>, “cenzo981@AOL.com” <cenzo981@aol.com>
Nuts
Vance”
Before I attempt to make heads or tails of this, let me make a few things clear from the outset. First of all, this is not a post that is intended to discuss, or settle the guilt or innocence of Vance Phillips, or the validity of the charges pending against him. This is a post about the current state of the Sussex County GOP, and whether or not Vance Phillips can mount a credible campaign for re-election. Any comments attempting to steer the conversation in that direction will be edited, redacted and or deleted. This is the only warning on this topic.
In writing this post I had to make some difficult choices, the first being whether to write it at all. But as I told Chairman Rieley, I can’t not know, the things I know. I feel compelled to write this so that the Republicans of Sussex County, and all the voters and citizens of the county have as much information as possible when making decisions about who to support, and who to believe in the upcoming campaigns.
The second decision was how much information to include, the easy answer is all of course. I had originally intended to exclude the email addresses that Mr. Phillips cc’d in his reply, but I feel that the people have a right to know who has been included in the behind the scenes discussion, and while I can’t identify all of the email addresses, I can tell you that they seem to be the Representative District Chairs that Mr. Rieley spoke of holding the Advisory Board meeting. The reason I did not exclude them was so that I could not be accused of editing for any purpose. The above email is exactly as it was presented to me by someone who I have every confidence in.
In preparing to write this post I felt I should allow Chairman Rieley to elaborate, or to clarify anything from the email that he felt would not be self-evident. His initial response was no comment, or more accurately, he stated that he would make no comment until he could speak with Mr. Phillips.
We then approached Duke Brooks who is the Communications Director for the Sussex County GOP Executive Committee, and in consultation with Chairman Rieley, they crafted this statement,
“The Sussex County Republican Committee Advisory board, meeting at Committee Headquarters in Georgetown on March 10th, passed two resolutions concerning Sussex County Councilman Vance Phillips (R-5th).
Is it because those who once fought against the “ESTABLISHMENT” have now become the “ESTABLISHMENT”?
So Instead of simply putting up a primary candidate to run against Mr. Phillips, which would make it hard to argue against the primaries of their favored ones, they have chosen to go behind closed doors and do exactly that which they condemned others of doing only four short years ago.
Comment
Councilman “nuts” Phillips
Frank
I am assuming from your article that no ED’s were consulted concerning this decision before it was made by the RD’s. While I have not been active for quite a few months for “personal” reasons I do have some serious issues with what has happened. This may very well be the proverbial straw that breaks the camels back and get me to attend this months meeting.
The call for Republican Unity is a non starter. Vance should run if he wants to and the voters shall decide.
The Party Leadership can speak up about anything they want but they don’t pick elected officials, the voters do.
These charges are just that-charges.
I wonder how many of the “leaders” reached out to Vance and offered their help or guidance in such a tough time for him? The GOP never changes.
Vance won’t pull out of the race according to 105.9.
http://delaware1059.com/story.php?id=8354
Vance Phillips had the nerve to email the SCGOP Chair about “party unity?”
I was at the November 2010 SCGOP when there was a motion from the floor to censure Tom Ross. I remember Ron Sams looking right at Vance Phillips and pleading with Phillips to help him unite the party.
Vance’s reply was “Mr. Chairman, I believe there is a motion on the table.”
Karma is a b***h, isn’t it, Vance?
I might have to endorse Frank Knotts in a primary challenge for Vance Phillips’ seat. Heck I might change voter registration to vote for Frank in this one. Call in today or whenever you get ready to announce your run.
Republican candidate running against Vance Phillips in the primary is Orvin Strickler. A realtor working for Long & Foster out of Rehoboth Beach. Contact him at orvin@aperfectbeach,com
Sorry ADB, but I don’t live in Mr. Phillips’ district.
I would like to thank Duke Brooks, the Communications Director of the Sussex GOP for being in studio for the Susan Monday Show on Delaware 105.9 today to set us all straight on this topic.
Quite a job communicating there Mr. Brooks. You show up to talk about an email which you showed up without, and which I wonder if you actually read it, since you miss quoted it several times.
It was however quite interesting to here you explain this whole mess with the Sussex GOP by talking about Richard Nixon and model trains.
You wasted 45 minutes to say nothing, must have brought back fond memories of your time on air at WGMD.
For many of us, there are still to many unanswered questions about this whole “water melon gate ” to stomach. Vance has remained mute, and owes his constituents a gracefull exit at the least.
PS.
term limits would have fixed this problem before it came to center stage as he would have only been citizen, not councilman.
Your language sounds bias to me. Calling it a secret meeting “in which the Chairman wasn’t even present”. I’m sure the Chairman was invited and well aware of the meeting that was being held. Just because he wasn’t able to attend, doesn’t mean it was held behind his back. There were two others that did not attend. Was this a planned conspiracy against them too? There is a board put in place for a reason. They are the voice of reason for the party, not the dictators of the people. The “Lords of the Backrooms”…Really? They simply stated they were not comfortable with supporting his run with a lawsuit pending, and his recent obvious bizarre behavior. Sounds pretty reasonable. The charges that have been made against Vance are extremely serious and should be taken into consideration, especially against an elected official who pleads the fifth. Where have our morals gone? I did not see where they said if Vance decided to run again they would have him arrested and brought before the King. It certainly will come down to the peoples vote. Although, I hope the people have enough sense not to vote for a man with such baggage. It’s the last thing this state needs.
4THETRUTH, when I call it a secret meeting, I mean that the rest of the Executive Committee was not informed of this decision to pull support of a sitting Republican.
And why was this taken up on a night that the Chairman was not able to attend. I can only assume that the Vice-Chair Fred Silva was running the meeting, since he ran the monthly EC meeting only an hour later that very same night.
Should we be asking the question of whether this was some twisted revenge for the Phillips/Christopher dust up?
You say, “They are the voice of reason for the party, not the dictators of the people.”
This may be, not in my view, but even so, who are these four or five people to take a vote of such importance, and then not only did they fail to allow the entire EC to vote on it, they failed, no they chose to not even inform the EC.
This is exactly the type of behavior that only four years ago many of these same people were blaming on the so called establishment within the GOP leadership.
This post is not about whether or not Phillips is guilty, it is about the hypocrisy of the so called grass roots within Sussex, they talk of “We The People”, yet feel they are above the people.
The EDs within the EC were excluded from this decision, the EDs are the party’s elected representatives of the GOP voters, the fact that these chosen few took it upon themselves to make such a decision without any input from the EDs only shows there contempt for the views of the common rank and file voters. That they feel they know better.
They are no different than those they condemned, be it Tom Ross or Ron Sams.
Hey Mr. Blogger Einstein,
Did or has it occurred to YOU that YOU are the reason such sensitive EXECUTIVE information gets discussed between EXECUTIVE (RD’s & which is Policy) in a AB meeting due to YOU can’t keep your mouth shut when in the course of monthly GOP meetings, YOU either disseminate or misconstrue GOP information all over the internet only to cast a bad light on either the Sussex GOP and/or state GOP. YOU should have been handled 6 months ago, when YOU continued to air GOP information into the internet through YOUR blog sphere.
Anyone such as YOURSELF, who brings/invites/meets a progressive liberal who attacks fellow GOP executives and candidates to a monthly GOP meeting is in FACT is a traitor and does NOT intend to unite or move the GOP forward as you and yours like to address YOUR positions, but only create division, disturbance and drama especially in a sensitive election year where it is essential that the GOP stay strong and intact.
YOU sir, are the reason that the GOP Republican numbers have dropped in the monthly meetings, because quite FRANKLY people are just sick and tired of YOUR BS and don’t want to spend their valuable time listening to it.
Again for the sake of a little internet blogger fame, YOU have diminished the effectiveness and credibility of the GOP, it’s RD executive committee and the body ED executive committee of in Sussex County. What nerve YOU have in posting the emails of people that volunteer their time, in their attempt to contain some credible solution as well helping our community in an election year, within the Sussex County GOP RD executive committee to where they are harassed with emails from all over the internet.
What a despicable ACT! NO WONDER the younger generation doesn’t want to engage in the GOP, damn man, YOU are the problem. WAKE THE HELL UP!
Who wants to volunteer their time and energy to the GOP, only to get attacked by a ED GOP executive internet blogger that tells everything he knows before midnight after a GOP meeting.
Put whatever spin YOU want to engage on this message, it reveals the truth behind YOUR motives. YOUR true motive is only to create GOP division and drama driving a wedge within the remainder of the Sussex County GOP with YOUR hidden agendas. Guess what?
IT WON’T WORK WHERE I AM STANDING!
“Republican candidate running against Vance Phillips in the primary is Orvin Strickler. ”
And his opening salvo is “I’m running to protect the constitution” and “That you can count on to hit homeruns all day long”
Nothing about roads, land use planning, services, county governance, yadda, yadda. You know actual county responsibility kinds of things.
And as far as hitting home runs, no one hits home runs all day long much less all season long. It’s a long thankless slog of mundane, but necessary, minutiae. This is Phillip’s opponent? I’m sure his views will play well at a 9-12 gathering, but the rest of the district is not that ignorant. Or are they?
Steele Remington, since you have come here under many other names, we will take your comments for what they are worth, not much.
But let me address some of your concerns.
You say, “YOU can’t keep your mouth shut when in the course of monthly GOP meetings, YOU either disseminate or misconstrue GOP information all over the internet”.
Well since the monthly meetings are open to the public and the press, anything said there is already public knowledge, so if I do happen to write about what happens there I am merely informing more of the public.
Next you say, “What nerve YOU have in posting the emails of people that volunteer their time, in their attempt to contain some credible solution as well helping our community in an election year, within the Sussex County GOP RD executive committee to where they are harassed with emails from all over the internet. ”
Well if you knew anything you would know that those people are elected officials of the party and there for are and should be available to the people, I know for a fact that many of those emails are already available publically. I stated my reason above for posting them, if I had edited anything from the email, people such as yourself would have accused me of editing other things from the email.
As for me being the problem in the GOP, well that is your opinion, mine is that people who meet in backrooms to make decisions are the problem.
The funny thing is, I was saying these same things in 2010 along with some of the same people who pulled this off, I am still saying it today, they can’t say the same.
This sort of drama brings out a bit of hypocrisy with a few members of the GOP. Vance has done a lot for party unity through elective office and party positions and of course he has some challenges with his civil case.
The scenario is complicated and some of the comments verify ignorance is not a barrier to an opinion.
I think voters should provide the opinion. It may not be truly informed or detailed but is the nature of our country-voters have the last say.
I tell candidates all of the time that email communication is on par with running radio ads. Everyone will soon hear it or be told about it.
A wise friend told me once if it can’t be printed in the church bulletin don’t write it.
This is on par with days of our lives or as the world turns.
Finally, everyone knows never say or propose anything controversial if more then 3 people are present because you can never prove who leaked the subject matter. Politics is Game of Thrones squared. There are so many shifting alliances, fragile allegiances, debts to be squared, and injustices to be righted that there are very few who can keep a secret. Leaked material is always done for a reason.
. It shows that, while not so long ago, many of the very people calling for Vance Phillips to stand down for the good of the party, in some closed-door executive session of party leadership, these were the very same people condemning Ron Sams and others for manipulating campaigns and candidates.
Is this so very different?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If I were Vance’s lawyer or confidant, I would be urging Vance Phillips to devote 100% of his time to fighting the lawsuit, not dividing his time between the County Council and the courtroom. I would advise him not to stir up public discussion of the allegations during the re-election campaign, which could even impact jurors but certainly will sound bad. It will be painful to him and everyone around him to have the allegations plastered around during a campaign.
I think it is a mistake to call on Vance to “retire” rather than just sit out a term and hope to run again when things are cleared up. Maybe if not presented in such stark terms, Vance might be willing to just take a time out from political service.
If Vance feels he is innocent, why should he pay for doing nothing wrong? But losing the lawsuit because he is distracted would not be an improvement. It may seem terribly unfair, but sitting out a term will still be the least bad.
But, yes, I think it is different, at least potentially.
One of the top things that offended conservatives in Delaware and around the nation in 2010 was the attack by GOP insiders on the right of the VOTERS in the Republican primary to decide who the voters want to nominate.
And that should always be extremely important.
But I don’t think the sin of Tom Ross and others of overtly campaigning for one candidate and sliming the other is in the same boat as discussing whether a candidate would be a good idea or not, especially attempting to do so in private.
There may be no sharp dividing line. At what point does a five o’clock turn into a beard? It may be a difficult line to draw.
But for sure we should not have the Party organizing against a candidate in the primary, lying about a candidate, arranging ads against a candidate including robocalls, etc.
The GOP establishment tried to persuade Christine O’Donnell to drop out in 2010 — even though she announced her plans to run for US Senate nearly a year before Mike Castle, and it was Mike Castle who changed his filing for US House in 2010 to US Senate.
But they did it by threatening her in the rudest, nastiest possible way, including Patricia Rakestraw shoving Christine into the wall with Jason O’Neill nearby and threatening Christine if she didn’t drop out.
It was the open campaigning for one candidate over another rather than letting the voters decide that offended people from coast to coast in all 50 States and Guam.
So discussing whether it is wise for a candidate to run is not the same as long as there is no interference or sabotage of his campaign or taking sides rather than letting the voters speak.
Is there a bright line? Well, no, not really. When does a 5 o’clock beard grow into a beard. Hard to say.
But what usually happens is that GOP insiders (a) warn someone they will lose, and then (b) start sabotaging that candidate to make their prediction come true.
If that pattern repeats with Vance Phillips’ campaign, it will be the sabotage that is offensive, not the discussion of whether it is a good idea for him to run.
Frank, call it whatever floats your boat this week with your nonsense rhetoric. YOU get so old with YOUR blubbering dialogue. Since you are a non-conformist let’s bring you up to speed on the formalities of most organizations.
It’s called the “Chain of Command”. Now, if you choose not to attend your monthly RD meetings in your district as a ED, you most probably missed an essential part of the equation that has stimulated this event. That’s YOUR FAULT! Over a month ago, RD’s questioned their ED’s in their monthly meetings whether they supported Vance Phillips or not. Over whelming majority stated they DO NOT support Vance’s re-election bid. RD’s conveyed that message through the “Chain of Command” to the executive RD meeting where the subject was discussed and voted on according to policy. No clandestine operation or back room sabotage took place.
If YOU as a ED don’t contribute your time to go to YOUR RD meetings in YOUR district to stay abreast of issues concerning YOUR district, take responsibility, own up to YOUR OWN mismanagement or step down as a ED if you can’t dedicate and/or volunteer YOUR time in a positive way towards uniting, contributing, volunteering as well as portraying the GOP in a positive light especially in a critical election year.
YOU ARE OVER WHELMINGLY OUT OF LINE, SIR TO SAY THE LEAST!
Again this is YOUR attempt to discredit the Sussex County GOP yet AGAIN, AGAIN and AGAIN! MAN UP! WE KNOW YOU HAVE A HIDDEN AGENDA, RHINO-MAN!
Journalism 101 – ethics in journalism – Do not write a person’s personal information unless they give you permission.
OH! How forgetful of me, YOU wouldn’t know anything about journalism or ethics! YOUR just a BLOGGER, so ethics doesn’t apply to YOU. It’s like sitting around a old wood stove in a general store fifty years ago but with a modern spin in 2014, conversing tales over air waves, not face to face, hiding behind a key board.
YOU are responsible for YOUR actions and that SIR, is YOUR undoing! Don’t blame anyone but YOURSELF for what YOU don’t know or what YOU didn’t know, but could and/or would have known if YOU had taken the time to go to YOUR RD meetings in YOUR district. Then YOU could have had a voice and spoken on how YOU felt about the situation, then again majority rules in any “Chain of Command” organization. YOU would have lost anyway! BUCK UP, GRAB A PAIR, SUSSEX COUNTY GOP CAN LIVE WITHOUT YOU!
Well Rusty Remmy Steele, your anger comes through loud and clear with your use of capitals, wonder if you would have the guts to scream in my face, or are you simply hiding behind a keyboard, conversing tales over air waves, not face to face?
You talk as if you are an insider, as if you know a lot about the Sussex GOP, and more importantly about my RD.
You state several times that if I had taken time to attend my RD monthly meetings, that I would have been made aware of this Advisory Board maneuver.
Well Remmy, maybe you could tell me the last time the 35th RD actually held a monthly meeting, and where it was held? When they were being held I never missed one.
You see, I now know that you yourself do not attend the monthly county meetings, of which I do not believe I have missed more than one in the past year, and that was last Nov. due to the fact that my father passed away that very day.
If you did attend the monthly county meetings, you would also know that I have twice made the committee aware of the fact that my RD Chair, Matt Opaliski has not held a monthly RD meeting now going on eight months or so. Also most months I am the only ED from the 35th present at the EC meeting.
So you see, I have had no monthly RD meeting to attend, and as far as I know Mr. Opaliski does not attend the AB meeting either.
Now as far as your chain of command argument, well it doesn’t hold water.
In my view such an important decision should have been brought up in front of the entire committee so that it could be discussed and voted on as a county committee, since the office that Mr. Phillips holds is a county position.
As for my ethics, well I have explained why I included the email addresses, surely those who voted for this are not ashamed of their vote?
But if it makes you feel better here is my email address vvyz1@yahoo.com oooooooooooooooh! now I am so frightened that people know my email address.
You and others can try and make this about email addresses, when we really know that it is about back room deals, and people who opposed power and its use, that is until they had the power, now the wield it like an ax in a china shop.
We should also ask why this happened on a night when John Rieley was not present, and Fred Silva was running the meeting. Reminds me of some tin pot dictator in a third world country.
This conversation is ridiculous!
Frank, you started off by saying, this is a post about “whether or not Vance Phillips can mount a credible campaign for re-election.”
Did you hear yourself? I’ll repeat it for you, “whether or not Vance Phillips can mount a CREDIBLE campaign for re-election.”
The man is being sued for an outrageous, horrendous crime! Whether he is guilty or innocent is not the point! How sick is this that we sit around even debating if he should run, or not run? This is not a typical accusation that happens every day to every politician. Especially to the degree of the complaint. It is horrendous! Did you even read it?
You can say all day long, “What if he is innocent?” The same way I could say “What if he is guilty?” Just the fact that he is pleading the fifth, and not denying any of it, indicates that he is in some way guilty of some sort of sexual abuse with this teenager, and it’s disgusting! Yes, it’s sexual abuse for a man of his age to have ANY kind of relationship with a teenager!
The fact that you would stand there with your face hanging out defending this man in ANY way, makes me wonder about you!
At best, do you not find it disturbing that Vance would send this young lady’s grandfather flowers while he was in the hospital for a serious heart attack? Who does that? Seriously!
Then you turn around and criticize the GOP for not backing him right now? WOW.
It was a regularly scheduled AB meeting. It was not clandestine, as you so famously made up.
Who cares if 2 or 3 people where unable to attend the meeting. It was their responsibility to be there, and if they could not attend they could have sent someone to take their place. EVERYONE knew the issue was going to be discussed! There were 9 people present that made up a quorum, and all nine voted UNANIMOUSLY to protect the party.
Fred Silva is the Vice Chair, and is obviously the proper person to run the meeting if the Chairman could not make the meeting. That is the rule, is it not?
My question to you Frank is, since you’re so concerned about being honest and just, who leaked the Chairman’s email to you?
It seems disingenuous of you to make charges of impropriety of others, while you yourself, have not been open and honest about your sources!
This seems to be the question that is now being asked by many!!
Until YOU come clean, maybe you should first take care of your own hypocrisy in all of this. Or do you prefer to take the Fifth as well?
Just an FYI- Most people are aware that writing in capital letters can now mean that you are shouting, but classically it simply means that you are emphasizing your words. There are still some devices that don’t have italics as an option…
Oh for cripes sake!
This was a simple case of the AB board pointing out ” the obvious ” to a candidate that is blinded by the fear of not continueing his 16 year reign of EGO. Try looking at it this way. It should be aplauded for saving the party the embarassment of possibly having to vote yet another person out of the party officially.
This is not about the AB board. This about trying to rebuild the party by setting some boundries and codes of ethics for sittting R’s. I am not a fan of the players involved here, but I applaud them for getting out in front of this and trying to avert another party incident. Vances ego is the thing that is preventing their action from being widely accepted.
The day all the players who were present for the groin kicking incident “man up” and disclose what that was really about, we will have true transparancy, and fewer players on the field.
WOW!, for someone who use the name “4TheTruth”, you sure have a loose affiliation with it.
What I said at the beginning of this post was, “This is a post about the current state of the Sussex County GOP, and whether or not Vance Phillips can mount a credible campaign for re-election. ”
I also dare you to find one comment on my part where I can be seen as defending of condemning Mr. Phillips based on the charges he is facing. You on the other hand are flirting dangerously with breaking the rule I set forth at the beginning of this post.
Why is it that people like yourself seem unable to read with any comprehension?
You attempt to quote me with this, ” It was a regularly scheduled AB meeting. It was not clandestine, as you so famously made up.”
When what I wrote was, ” I would also like to point out that this clandestine meeting (okay it was their regular AB meeting, held at its regular time, but I wanted to work in the word clandestine) was held prior to the monthly meeting of the entire Executive Committee on March the 10th.”
So as anyone who can read through comprehension can see, I was making an illustrative joke, drawing attention to it by placing parentheses around it.
I never disputed that it was a regular AB meeting, I actually stated that point, I also stated that it preceded the regular EC meeting and the topic was not brought to the entire EC. Don’t act as if you have found some grand flaw in my post.
I also never questioned Fred Silva’s authority to run the meeting in the Chairman’s absence, what I do question is the timing of this vote when John Rieley was absent, since it is clear from the tone of his email he would have been less than enthusiastic about it, was the timing mere coincidence? Or was it convenient timing?
Now as for you asking for the source of the email, what would the purpose be of that? Since no one, not even John Rieley is denying its authenticity, the statement supplied by Duke Brooks (Communications Director) and approved by John Rieley, confirm what is within the email.
The only reason the source would have any relevance is if it its authenticity were being challenged, and even then, I would refuse to disclose my source.
But keep trying to make this about me, or my source, or anything but what it is really about, and that is the fact that a chosen few “LORDS OF THE BACKROOM” decided that they didn’t need to include the rest of the Executive Committee.
“Most people are aware that writing in capital letters can now mean that you are shouting, but classically it simply means that you are emphasizing your words. There are still some devices that don’t have italics as an option…”
Those who are upset about capitalized words have an opinion about what capitalized words imply (shouting) but refuse to accept that not everyone shares their point of view.
If they feel that way, fine. But the assumption that everyone else agrees is unwarranted.
I still remember using computers that did not have any lower case letters. Everything was printed on the teletype printer in all-capital letters. Nobody thought it was shouting.
4thetruth,
I believe that Frank is trying to point out the contradictions, not defending Vance Phillips. I don’t completely agree with Frank’s point of view, but I believe Frank is arguing that the same people are taking opposition or contrary positions in similar situations. I don’t think that Frank Knotts is defending anyone or arguing either side. I expect from past debates that Frank’s personal view is that Vance should NOT run again and/or should not be re-elected.
4theTruth says “At best, do you not find it disturbing that Vance would send this young lady’s grandfather flowers while he was in the hospital for a serious heart attack? Who does that? Seriously! ”
I don’t find that remotely disturbing, and I cannot imagine anyone who would.
Anyone who would NOT show concern for someone who has had a serious heart attack would greatly disturb me and should disturb you.
I don’t care if someone is my worst enemy, if they are in the hospital I should pray for them tell them I hope they recover and probably tell them that I am praying for their full recovery.
Jesus said to love even our enemies.
If you love your friends, what credit is that to you, Jesus says. Even the sinners do that, Jesus said.
But love your enemies as yourself. As much as it depends upon you, live at peace with al lmen.
Anyone who would not make a gesture of concern for someone who had a serious heart attack I find creepy, nasty, and twisted — or else they are simply dishonestly trying to stir up controversy. That is, those trying to make an issue out of flowers probably don’t really believe what they are saying. They are just hoping to create controversy among those who might e naïve or gullible.
It’s just sick, the whole damn thing! If some 50 year old man pushed himself sadistically sexually on your teenage virgin Christian home schooled granddaughter threatening to harm her, her family and discredit her for the rest of her life in the community she lives in, damn MEN wouldn’t YOU be upset or just take on the chin and say, “LOVE THY ENEMY” WT—- is wrong with YOU! Sending flowers to a preacher whom had a heart attack and by the person who sexually assaulted his granddaughter, SICK, SICK, SICK! And take THAT on the CHIN!! OMG, how far we as a people have fallen!
Frank, I see you at the monthly meetings, standing in the back with whomever you have under handedly invited with you this month, not sitting in your ED district chair. If YOU have a problem with your RD chair not having monthly meetings to keep YOU ED’s up to speed on current events concerning the GOP, that’s YOUR fault.
And believe me, Capitalizing the words like YOU, is not shouting it is emphasizing. Can’t YOU tell the difference in the dialogue. Further more, I got news for you, YOU don’t want to get ornery with me face to face, take my word for it, YOU can’t handle me. YOUR not in the same league.
There was nothing improper that transpired in contacting Vance Phillips by email to clarify the position of the RD and ED’s in the GOP. The Executive committee could have entertained asking him to appear in person, however they do know how volatile his demeanor is since he assaulted the Sheriff in GOP HQ in front of several witnesses. So, they didn’t want another incident, hence the email. If YOU haven’t figured it out, Vance can’t control his temper, his attitude, his behavior and his pecker, hence the email.
So, lets go to where some say, “Vance has done a good job with his county position for 16 years”. HE should had, HE was paid to do a good job, not a bad job. Now, does that warrant him to a free pass to just act out in a dishonorable fashion personally and professionally? Hell NO! Elected officials are held at a HIGHER STANDARD, not a lower standard. Vance Phillips was elected to do a good job and morally act like a model citizen entrusted by the community. Did he do that? NO, he did not. Hence, the ACTION taken by the GOP executive committee to up hold the dignity of the office in which Vance Phillips represents.
WE ALL VOTED TO TAKE OUT THE TRASH!
If some 50 year old man pushed himself sadistically sexually on your teenage virgin Christian home schooled granddaughter threatening to harm her,
And if Vance Philips DID NOT do any of those things, he would feel very angry at having people tell lies about him. Right?
And yet Vance Phillips is willing to recognize the humanity of an old man who has had a heart attack, in spite of vicious lies being told against him.
It sounds perfectly normal if Vance Phillips believes he did nothing wrong.
Well, Remmy old friend, please feel free to introduce yourself tomorrow night. I welcome the chance to discuss this with you face to face, one wonders why such a person as yourself, one who states, “YOU don’t want to get ornery with me face to face, take my word for it, YOU can’t handle me. YOUR not in the same league.”, why you come here under several assumed names?
But feel free to man up tomorrow night at the monthly meeting.
Please also explain this statement, “Frank, I see you at the monthly meetings, standing in the back with whomever you have under handedly invited with you this month, not sitting in your ED district chair. ”
First, I don’t invite anyone to the meetings, underhandedly or otherwise, the meetings are open to the public, well at least until the political coup within the EC is completed that is.
As for not sitting in my ED district chair? First of all the “D” in ED stands for district so you are being redundant, second, why should I sit in a row of chairs by myself since no other EDs from the 35th show up? And why do we have to have assigned seats to begin with?
And we agree, “There was nothing improper that transpired in contacting Vance Phillips by email to clarify the position of the RD and ED’s in the GOP. The Executive committee could have entertained asking him to appear in person”, what was improper was that the EC was never given the chance to make that choice as a body whole, that choice was taken away from the body whole by a few people who were afraid that they couldn’t make their case to the entire committee, or afraid that they lack the skill to make their case. Personally I think they would have sailed through on this. And they wouldn’t have had to invite Mr. Phillips, I believe he was in attendance at last months meeting, but maybe they just lack the courage to do the heavy lifting face to face, and instead chose to put John Rieley between a rock and a hard place.
Frank, You know and I know your as tough as a paper napkin! I am stating FACTS and YOU are Well, YOU Ha, are just YOU are!
Hmmm, maybe YOU want to ask yourself, “Why is there not more people in my district ED chair section and why am I embarrassed to sit by myself?” Just could be they got tired of YOUR BS and quit coming! That seems to be contagious throughout the room too!
And as far as YOU stating, YOU didn’t invite anyone to come to the GOP monthly meeting? That’s BS buddy and YOU and I know damn well, who you had there. MR – a flaming progressive liberal POS arrived and hooked on your side, stood with you and Steve Grossman the entire meeting in the back of the room a few months ago. YOU two are a flaming twosome on the blogger sites, sticking up and licking each others boots heals. SICK,SICK, SICK – TRAITOR! Its like insider trading within the GOP, YOU can’t wait to tell your embellished version of what transpires in the GOP monthly meeting on any blog site.
Let’s state FACTS!
Vance Phillips admitted to his affair with Katelyn Dunlap and his wife divorced is sorry ass over it. (50 yr. man pushed sex on a virgin teenager) FACT! He is just damn lucky Mr. Dundas is a Christian preacher, bc the most of us out here in the community would revert to the 100 year old Sussex County justice.
Vance, I am sure under the advisement of his attorney, pleas the fifth when questioned about the incident regarding the specifics of the factual sexual encounters with a teenager, only to not incriminate himself bc an criminal investigation is pending where at the time of the investigation there was not sufficient evidence to arrest him regarding HE SAID, SHE SAID STATEMENTS, but the case can be re-opened if sufficient evidence comes forth. FACT!
Now, a civil suit comes in to play where the same evidence used in the criminal case can be used in a civil case having more of an impact due to the fact it’s a person’s pocket book on the line, instead of their life. Example – O.J. Simpson case. Evidence retrieved in his case w/o a warrant was suppressed in discovery in his criminal trial that would have found him guilty, but later used in his civil trial that indeed found him guilty costing him millions in a judgment. FACT!
Vance assaults (kicked him in the groin, throws a paper tablet at his head) the Sheriff in GOP HQ in front of several witnesses that all sided with the Sheriff. FACT!
People is all about morals, honor, integrity and dignity! Do you really want someone like Vance Phillips representing the GOP ticket against a Democrat in the general election? The Democrat will win hands down and the seat will be lost. It’s better to get a grip on the situation NOW, form a plan, stand behind a candidate that has a good chance of winning in the general election. Vance’s days of hiding behind is his religion, his church, his disability (so sorry for your accident, but you made the decision as a rookie to get into a glider with hardly no experience and end up crashing the plane in another state VA, very odd when Laurel airport is a few miles from his house, Hmmm I got my thoughts about that move)
Vance, stick a fork in your EGO, it’s done! Oh, and YOU too Frank! YOU just cooked your last meal with the GOP!
And people wonder why no one takes them seriously. Remmy old friend, just because someone comes to the same meeting as I do, and then stands and talks to me, does not mean I invited them. I unlike you evidently am able to have a conversation even with those I disagree with.
The conversations you have with the echo club must sound like so much chicken clucking.
But if you are oh so tough maybe you could name the so called progressive liberal I spoke with. Come on be a grown-up.
So are you telling me that all of the EDs in the 35th don’t come to the meetings because of me? WOW! You give me way too much credit, I’ll tell you why they don’t come, they don’t come because they only took the seats to prevent others from getting them. Not to actually get anything done, but to block others.
And why have such a problem with publicizing what is a public meeting? After all the root word is public. That is unless you have something to hide.
For four years we have been hearing from many of these people about transparency and open government, now we see they are no different than those they ran out of the party, well that’s not true, the people they ran out could win elections.
Hmmm, ask oneself “Why isn’t Kent County GOP or New Castle GOP in any of your topics of discussion on yours, Steve Grossman and Jeff Cragg’s Delaware Wrongs web site blog grog piece of crap so-called THE PRESS news release hog wash?”
THE PRESS! LOL, do you have a self made PRESS badge to go along with your de-coder ring too!
I tell you why, Kent County GOP kicked your sorry asses the hell out of their meetings and Kent County too! So, in your infinite wisdom, ha what wisdom, I am being tooo gracious, Steve Grossman and Jeff Cragg dangle some bait (blogger extraordinaire) in front of you, bc you are a ED in the Sussex County GOP to where YOU (THE PRESS – LOL I am just too much) can take some info out of the meetings and report to your faithful progressive liberal fanatics that worship their idol – Bungle Boy Blogger Franklin Knothead!
Hey, Steve and Jeff when the GOP kicks YOUR water bucket bugle boy out of the GOP, who YOU going to get to be your whipping boy and where do you think your going next?
I tell YOU where! Run your sorry asses the hell out the state with YOUR Delaware Wrongs Moving Delaware backwards and RT1 PAC wagging it’s tail behind you!
Sussex County GOP is finally waking up and taking out the trash!
” Do you really want someone like Vance Phillips representing the GOP ticket against a Democrat in the general election?”
Again, I am baffled why anyone thinks that Frank Knotts supports Vance Phillips’ re-election.
Commenting on how things are being done does not mean that anyone supports Vance in the election.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“It’s better to get a grip on the situation NOW, form a plan, stand behind a candidate that has a good chance of winning in the general election.
Okay, but isn’t that a decision for the voters in the Republican primary? If your argument is persuasive, don’t you think that the Republicans who vote in the primary will be persuaded by your argument?
Are you confident that the voters will act wisely enough up to your standards?
If your concern is that the voters won’t see things your way, how do you or a small circle have the right to replace the voters’ decision with your own opinion? Even if you are right in seeing the situation, are you right in imposing your will on others?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
” at the time of the investigation there was not sufficient evidence to arrest him regarding HE SAID, SHE SAID STATEMENTS, but the case can be re-opened if sufficient evidence comes forth.”
Yes, that is true. If more evidence comes to light, prosecutors could indict Vance Phillips even though they previously chose not to. However, it is not only a question of more evidence (raw information) but also “credibility” — which is broader than it sounds. So if the investigators felt that the witnesses contradicted themselves or their stories were inconsistent, more raw information might not convince the prosecutor to prosecute.
For that reason, I think it is very unwise for Vance Phillips to run again for re-election or to serve on the County Council either way. He should concentrate on his legal problems. But there is a huge difference between me advising someone of what they should do and FORCING them to do what I think they ought to do.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vance Phillips admitted to his affair with Katelyn Dunlap and his wife divorced is sorry ass over it. (50 yr. man pushed sex on a virgin teenager)
Did he? Apparently, Vance Phillips admitted to committing adultery against his wife, with sufficient seriousness to cause the end of his marriage.
But I don’t think Vance has admitted whom he committed adultery with and I think Vance Philips has emphatically denied “PUSHING” himself on any one.
Was she a virgin at 18 years old?
I don’t know. You don’t know. And for sure HER PARENTS DON’T KNOW.
According to the Guttmacher Institute, 61% of 18-year-old girls in the USA have had sex, nearly half (48%) of those aged 17 have had sex, and one-third of girls aged 16 have had sex. (2013 report).
So was the girl a virgin? Well we don’t know but have no reason to assume so. And claiming it accomplishes nothing but to try to create an unwarranted impression.
I think someone is drinking again. Remmy, I have never made a claim to be press or a journalist.
As for taking things out of the meetings, what F’in part of public is too complicated for you to understand?
I notice like all of the fringe element you fail to answer direct questions and resort to name calling.
As for the GOP taking out the trash? Well as Obi-Wan said to Vader, “if you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine”.
Frank, I will take the first sentence out of your first paragraph of your first page of your first book!
Hey, cupcake my friend! That’s the only sentence I want to take off your page.
Frank Knotts
April 10, 2014
Well since the monthly meetings are open to the public and the press, anything said there is already public knowledge, so if I do happen to write about what happens there I am merely informing more of the public.
OK cupfake, did you not say in the statement above “open to the public and the press” underline – so, I do happen to write about what happens there I am merely informing more of the public. Are YOU acting as the PRESS or a traitor GOP ED?
Either YOU are a FAKE PRESS officer or a TRAITOR GOP ED that reports distortions of the facts and truth?
OK, now I am just ROTFWL (rolling on the floor with laughter) for those who don’t know that! NOW, cupfake YOU are comparing yourself with the ALMIGHTY DARTH VADAR OF STAR WARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHOAAAAA!!!!!!! HOLY S— all the GOP ED’S, RD’s and executive staff are trembling in our shoes, sneakers, boots, slippers, flip flops, etc. WELL, just strike us all down with your all mighty light saber, jumping gee hosafat that there man might mean business, Gomer!
Heck, cupfake if you didn’t get ten seconds of fame from this blog that I sincerely doubt your going to get fifteen seconds more for another blog that states “Frank Knothead got body slammed and thrown out with the trash by the SCGOP for violated SCGOP executive policy regarding bringing ill repute to the organization with his grog site – Delaware Wrong, Moving Delaware Backwards.
Like the saying goes cupfake, ” Just give you enough rope and just wait, YOU will eventually hang yourself with it” And YOU did!
Oh by the way Mr. Mosley, when you live within our community up here in Sussex, only then can you pretend to know the inside information on the who, what, where, when and how of the REAL Vance Phillips! Until then, don’t pretend to know how WE in Sussex County feel about a pervert!
Oh by the way Mr. Mosley, when you live within our community up here in Sussex, only then can you pretend to know the inside information on the who, what, where, when and how of the REAL Vance Phillips!
It doesn’t matter where you live, you don’t know, either.
You need to read THE CRUCIBLE about the Salem witch trials.
Just because you convince yourself of something doesn’t make it so.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Until then, don’t pretend to know how WE in Sussex County feel about a pervert!
WOW! What an amazing slip of the tongue.
So it matters how you FEEL — not what is true?
I could not say it better myself.
I do not question how you FEEL.
I do question how you think you know things that you do not actually know to e true.
It appears clear that Vance Phillips committed adultery, which resulted in the end of his marriage. Is that bad enough (politically)? Yeah, I think so.
But what is wrong with this picture when you simply assume that all the allegations are true before they have been proven true or false? You don’t see a problem with that?
Okay, I apologize to Remmy, I thought they were drinking, obviously they are on some serious drugs.
Let me break it down for the little brain.
When I say the meetings are open to the public and the press, I am talking about other people being able to attend freely, other than the members, of which I am one.
As for the Star Wars quote, I am not comparing myself to Vader you fatuous waste of air. You have threated that I will be taken out like trash, well let it happen if need be, and if you think I have been critical of the GOP from within? Well we will just have to see won’t we.
How is it being a traitor to report what happens in a public meeting? Or is it that I have a separate view of what happens? I guess in your echo world everyone walks in lockstep to the sounds of Wagner playing in the background.
Keep taking out that “trash,” Remmy, soon you’ll be all alone in that tiny little tent called the Delaware Republican Party.
I heard that there was an exploratory meeting last night by another Republican that plans to primary Vance. Does anybody know anything about this development?
And just who is this Steel Remington whack job who thinks he can call people “RINO” and “a flaming progressive liberal POS”?
This is why the DEGOP is dying, people like Remington are actively engaged in killing it.
Remington, crapcake, if you want to know why the GOP can’t attract any young people try looking in the mirror. No young person wants to stand up to some old crusty loser like you and have their worthiness judged.
BTW no young person wants to join a “Young Republicans” Club lead by the Reverend Dundas, who is 100 years old and preaching anti gay, no choice rhetoric. Young people aren’t scared of the gays and they have their own opinions on “choice” so it’s time for the SCGOP Young Republican Club to reflect the ideas of our youth and not the worn out, 19th Century ideas of a bunch of retirees.
Hey Common, you have no sense! Your just Common.
Nobody talking about gays. Get with the program, we talking about a perverted middle aged heterosexual sexual predator who jumped a teenager’s bones , I think unless he comes out of the closet with another detail of his sick personal life. I hear there are more puppets involved in this play, just waiting in the wings to sing like mocking birds!
Time will tell!
By the way Cupfake, are you warming up your delivery on a exit speech?
No one is scared of gays.
And the majority of people marching in the “March for Life” opposing abortion are always young people.
Remington don’t get too full of yourself, the political movement you are part of has a history of eating it’s own, just ask Vance Phillips. I predict you will be the “RINO” and “progressive, liberal POS” soon enough, and it couldn’t happen to a nicer POS.
Moseley “the majority”? Many of the young people at that March are brought there by their parents. I see nothing in pictures or statistics that proves your “majority” statement.
Remmy, why would I post under assumed names? I have no fear of saying what I believe under my own name, unlike you, who has come here under several names.
Cupfaky, is that all you got? Worrying who I am or how many names I have used? You haven’t addressed one thing I mentioned above.
Like how come you don’t use your THE PRESS badge in Kent County GOP and New Castle GOP meetings to report their GOP business, where YOU report THE NEWS before midnight after the meeting? Hmmm, guess what? Hank McCann would through your sorry ass the hell out and never come back if you were writing crap about his meetings. I guess you could say those meetings are opened to the public as well. But, how come your not there, reporting the THE NEWS from Kent County or New Castle County?
Let’s get REAL! YOU and your entourage have a hidden agenda to destroy the SCGOP. Why would anyone do the things that YOU do? I just can’t fathom why YOU wanted to say anything regarding the matter in the attempt to solidify your reasoning for printing the email when you can visibly see that the chairman was so disappointed with YOU! Ahhhhh, most people know when to shut up! Ohhh, not YOU!
If you didn’t noticed people began to walk out when the Frank Knotts show began. Buddy, you sure can clear a room! Chairman put a kabash on the Frank Knotts show and those who walked out, walked back in to hear the remainder of the meeting.
This whole thing certainly took valuable time away from the other speakers as well as election year candidates and necessary campaign strategies that could be discussed.
Frank Knotts show has been cancelled due to technical difficulty with his mouth!
Remington, the meeting was at the Cheer Center in Georgetown last night. I’m not sure what meeting you were sitting in. The only time people got up and started walking out was when Sam Wilson got up to speak.
Remmy, I write about Sussex because I live in Sussex, and I am a member of the Sussex GOP. We have been looking for people to write from Kent and NCC. I write from my perspective as a Sussex citizen. If I wrote about NCC it would be from a Sussex perspective.
As for pointing out that you come here under several fake names, well for someone who talks such a big game, yet hides behind a fake name, I think it would lend relevance to your statements if people knew who you were. I notice you didn’t have the guts to introduce yourself last night either.
As for the Frank show? The exchange between the chairman and myself lasted maybe three minutes. The chairman made it clear that he did not want to pursue it in the meeting, and I respected that. As a member of the EC, and once recognized by the chair, which I was, I could have held the floor for the rest of the night if I had so chosen. I did not.
Your definition of hidden is pretty wild too, since everything I do I do publically, isn’t that what you have a problem with? This whole thing is about exposing hidden agendas.
Wow, bow out for a bit and look what happens……
The SCGOP is beginning to sound and look like the Communist Party of old, assigned seats, signing in for meetings? Really? Voting on moving a comma? For real? Wow. Make it easier on yourselves, hire a technical writer.
I think Remmy is having hallucinations, progressive liberal POS? At a GOP meeting? With sign in sheets……and cell phone pictures, all that should be easy to track….unless of course all those failsafes should just be conveniently missing, which would mean Remmy IS HAVING a psychological break with reality. But……Not the first time…..
Of course one running for office who wants to represent ALL the people may want to hear the other side of the fence to see if there is any validity in the arguments- or the paranoia is over the top.
I think Remmys hatred of Vance Phillips is harking back to their own sad experiences and maybe Remmy should stay on their meds. It’s called ” Ghosting ” dear, please get the help you need.
Jon Moseley-
I appreciate your perspective about the flowers. In a perfect world, your point of view would be a perfect ending to a Disney movie. Although, the only fact that really matters here is what did the family and the people in the room think when the flowers were delivered? Also, very importantly, what did the police think? I guarantee you no one understood it as you do. This situation is not exactly confidential, and the outside members were astonished! It was viewed as a man with a twisted mind!
Maybe you could relate to it a little better if it were more personal. Imagine, if you would, that your wife or daughter (or anyone you truly loved) came to you and poured her heart out about something so devastating. Just think for a moment that the complaint was coming from someone you KNEW was telling the truth. Then, while you are in the hospital after suffering a serious, life threatening heart attack, you receive flowers from the very man that raped and brutalized your loved one. Would you sincerely respond with belief that the flowers were an act of love and care?
I am beyond perplexed about why ANYONE would have a hard time comprehending why Vance Phillips should not be supported right now.
Would anyone (in their right mind) really sit around and say, “Well, until Earl Bradley is proven innocent or guilty, I’m just going to keep him as my child’s pediatrician. What if he is innocent?”
What then, we just continue to allow him to be a pediatrician and go on acting like everything is ok, while saying to each other “We have no business standing in Bradley’s way if he wants to be a doctor for children! He has actually medically helped so many kids.”
Do we not have a civil and moral obligation to protect these people and make SURE he is innocent before gambling the children. Let’s not forget that the DA didn’t bring him up on charges the first time around when they should have. Yes, the law says innocent until proven guilty. No one is arguing that. But Remember the issue now is the Fifth Amendment. That is all we have to go on and this by his choice. Are we to assume innocent men refuse to answer questions?
In addition Frank, You’re very hypocritical by demanding Remington to reveal himself, when you yourself refuse to reveal who gave you the email. Who are you protecting? Which reminds me, what is the relationship between Jeff Craig and you? I heard he foots the bill for this page, is that true? Would you at least answer that question? Just curious.
No one foots the bill for this site, wordpress.com is free, anyone can start a blog, even you 4TheTruth.
I challenge Remmy because of their talk of courage.
As for how I came about the email? What does it matter? That concern is for John Rieley to know who released it, but it has no bearing on the topic of the post. The issue of the post is not who leaked the email, the content is the issue.
The need to know is human nature I suppose, but it is also an attempt to deflect attention away from the real issue, the fact that the Sussex GOP has changed little in four years.
4thetruth: “Although, the only fact that really matters here is what did the family and the people in the room think when the flowers were delivered? ”
Well, perhaps that’s a good point. First, my reaction is not to whether Vance should or should not have done that, but to the hysterical accusation OH, my God, he sent someone flowers in the hospital! Line him up against the wall and shoot him for sending flowers!
Perhaps no flippant comment will sound socially acceptable in an environment of high tension, but those who accuse Vance of the horrible sin of sending flowers might consider how that sounds to their listeners, too. It is not the most persuasive argument they could make, particularly when there is a lot of other extremely serious issues.
I have said it before: For ether Eric Bodenweiser or Vance Phillips, if they are actually guilty, they should be hung and there will be a special place in hell for them.
Second, probably in such a situation Vance should have focused more on communicating a message of peace and an OLIVE BRANCH than on a gesture that meant one thing to him (we assume for the sake of argument) and could be taken very differently by the family.
If the point was — I am assuming — to say “In spite of everything, I certainly hope you recover and are in good health” then maybe a clear note along those lines would have posed less risk of upsetting the girl’s family.
But I am just reacting to the fact that people seem to get all worked up to the point that they go too far. If one wants to be offended, there are more solid reasons for being offended than flowers. And it seems to be a pattern (with humanity, no one in particular) of taking silly things too far.
I guess if we try to understand both sides, the issue is this: The family feels that Vance sending flowers — as if nothing else is wrong — diminishes the seriousness of their complaints and “acts as fi Vance thinks he did nothing wrong.”
But Vance DOES think that Vance did nothing wrong. From Vance’s perspective, he is innocent — or so he tells us, at least of non-consensual sex.
So to Vance sending flowers appears a natural thing to do because he (apparently) does NOT feel he is guilty of anything.
However, yes, that does create a situation of bringing the dispute about who is right and who is wrong into the grandfather’s hospital room while he is recovering from a heart attack.
Receiving flowers from Vance Phillips may look like an olive branch to Vance but may subject the family to confronting the truth or falsehood of the entire controversy right there in the grandfather’s hospital room.
So Vance’s flowers are challenging the truth and credibility of the girl’s accusations, by acting as if nothing is wrong.
But if Vance wants to send an olive branch, then I would imagine (assuming) he is trying to say “No matter what other conflict there may be, I certainly hope you are in good health.” If that were his clear message (if it were clear) then it does not force a confrontation over whether the accusations are true or false at that bad moment.
4thetruth: “Maybe you could relate to it a little better if it were more personal. Imagine, if you would, that your wife or daughter (or anyone you truly loved) came to you and poured her heart out about something so devastating. Just think for a moment that the complaint was coming from someone you KNEW was telling the truth”
Well that is an enormously difficult situation. And maybe most people cannot rise above their feelings to do the right thing or the logical thing.
However, the fact that I love someone does not mean they are telling the truth.
And the reality is that the girl in this situation is far more likely to be lying about her relationship with Vance BECAUSE SHE IS AFRAID TO TELL HER FAMILY THE TRUTH.
The girl’s story of non-consensual sex makes absolutely no sense — on its face.
The idea that they had an affair is believable. The idea that it got kinky is believable. The idea that maybe it got out of control is believable, that is that Vance went farther with the kinkiness than the girl expected, agreed to or could handle. The idea that an older man and an inexperienced young girl did not communicate well is believable.
But the whole tale of the girl being coerced into the whole thing just doesn’t ring true or hang together.
Far more likely is the shame the girl fears telling her family that yeah I had an affair with an older man and yeah I wanted to experiment with kinky sex.
Those feelings are weird for all of us. We have instincts and feelings that don’t make any sense, logically, and that we can easily be ashamed of before, during and especially after the fact. (Like a big dinner, one can be hungry ahead of time and then afterward say I am never going to eat again. It is much easier to have desires beforehand but shame afterwards.)
This is why after normal healthy consensual sex, we have the joke of “THE WALK OF SHAME” supposedly.
So ironically it is most likely the girl’s inability to face her family with the shame of experimenting with kinky sex.
So if I love someone, what am I going to do?
Am I really helping my loved one by encouraging a guilt-ridden, high-octane emtional exaggeration?
Right now, there is a woman — about whom I have solid, black-and-white proof to the contrary, including recordings — who would be telling similar lies about me, fueled by unrelated anger, if she did not know I could prove those lies false. Not getting satisfaction expressing her anger about the real issues in dispute (although she just needs to come straight out with it and express her anger) she makes up more inflammatory alternate complaints instead. But unlike Vance, I have proof, including recordings. And she knows it. And that is the only difference for me.
Wow Moseley that was creepy.
Anon, if you are referring to the comment about myself, don’t read too much into that. Please don’t take that the wrong way.
I did not mean to imply that there was ever any personal relationship in what I was referring to. I was opining that there is one woman who would probably be CLAIMING there was an unwanted sexual advance to create rewarding drama, if she could get away with it. I can prove that I was 700 to 3,000 miles away at certain times and prove that the relationship was 100% professional. There was absolutely NO romantic, personal, or intimate interaction of any kind — ever. none. Not the slightest.
But imagine if you could say something that would instantly deflect all criticism, stop people from asking questions that might be unflattering, produce a gusher of sympathy and positive support, and get everyone to side with you no matter how wrong you are, and cover up instantly any wrongs that you committed against other people?
Sounds awfully tempting, doesn’t it?
Then add to the mix the idea that it is socially approved, and if any one doubts you they are attacked and smeared as heartless? So making the claim not only succeeds, but is positively encouraged, and anyone who doubts it is attacked as a lout?
If all you had to do was say a few “magic words” and instantly get out of any negative situation and instantly be rewarded with emotional support and sympathy, wouldn’t that be tempting?
In the case of Vance Phillips, did Vance Phillips commit adultery, abuse his professional position within a political campaign, and prey upon an inexperienced young woman? It appears that he does not dispute that much.
Is that bad enough to disqualify him from elected office in a community like Sussex County? Well, it did not stop Bill Clinton, and Democrats rallied around Clinton, even over accusations sworn under oath from several women that Bill Clinton sexually molested them — on the job, no less. So there is a significant debate about this.
But I will go so far as to say, yeah, in most cases it should disqualify Vance Phillips from office. (If someone has rebuilt their life over a long period of time, then maybe.)
But is it believable that the young woman kept going back again and again under coercion, believed that a County Commissioner has so much power as to have someone whacked, and all the rest? The story in the civil complaint just strains credulity.
Maybe all that happened. But those who want to be offended at anyone who is not willing to assume that all that actually happened are going a bit too far.
Is that bad enough to disqualify him from elected office in a community like Sussex County? Well, it did not stop Bill Clinton, and Democrats rallied around Clinton, even over accusations sworn under oath from several women that Bill Clinton sexually molested them — on the job, no less. So there is a significant debate about this.
Maybe the liberals sit around debating this, but I have much higher expectations of Republicans. If I wanted to be in a party that acted like the Democrats in situations like this, I would be a Democrat.
Moseley, I have shown restraint in allowing you to post here, because you had limited yourself to single comments. Do not think I will allow your style of run on comments and multiple strings of comments to take over this site. You are welcome to take that back to that other site you love so bad.
Mr. Knotts:
I recall meeting you about 2 years ago.
I thought you said you were a writer.
This isn’t writing; it’s TYPING.
Mr. King, forgive me for not remembering you, if we did meet. However, I never describe myself as a writer, or a journalist, or media, or any other label that would lead anyone to think I was a professional. I may have said I write on this or that blog. If you don’t care for the topics, that is your opinion. I do find after all these years of writing or typing on blogs, that the opinion of my writing ability goes up and down from person to person based on their view of the topic. If they agree with me I am a great writer, if they disagree withy me, I suck. This is human nature for sure, it is also childish, and intellectually dishonest.
About “BECAUSE SHE IS AFRAID TO TELL HER FAMILY THE TRUTH.”
This high school girl, did not just come out one day and start making accusations. She said nothing until the investigators came knocking on HER door.
If she was too afraid to tell her family, all she had to do was lie and tell the police nothing happened. It all would have been swept under the rug and the family would have NEVER known any different! It would have been much easier to deny everything. That would be more believable.
On the other hand, it is public knowledge, that this Bible quoting politician got a criminal lawyer right away and has pled the fifth ever since.
That’s not how it happened.
However, hinging an argument on assuming that a teenage girl is going to lie to the police is a bit much. So she is too young and impressionable to call the police and say that she is being repeatedly raped, over a long period of time, and she keeps going back to get raped again and again…. but she is sophisticated enough to lie to the police? And in one case she is innocent, in the other case you are expecting the girl to commit a crime of obstruction of justice.
But what actually happened is that the girl apparently confided in her boyfriend, who felt obligated to take it to the next level despite the girl’s desire to keep it secret.
There are women who think that I am indiscreet in that way, although they do not understand why my actions have always at all times been carefully-thought-out and meticulously correct like that.
Meanwhile, it appears independently of the boyfriend, there were people who were aware of the affair while it was happening… that is, Vance did not do as good a job as he thought of keeping it secret.
Then the anonymous letter was sent to every member of the General Assembly… and to the news media.
So it became public knowledge by someone who published news of the affair to the Attorney General, all of the General Assembly and the news media and others.
With it now public knowledge — although the girl’s name was widely known but not published — she would have to explain to her family why she was having kinky sex and BSDM adventures with a married man.
Already uncomfortable or feeling shame about having done those very strange things,and sleeping with a married man, which is one of the problems with dating a younger woman who may not be fully at peace with her sexual feelings and instincts, the woman now had to confront her family about all of this.
The following things are possible:
1) Everything the girl says is true, including that she believed that a County Council member has the power to have her family whacked, and that she kept going back again and again to be raped over and over across many months
2) Perhaps Vance Phillips is unable to remember what happened because he hit his head falling out of the sky.
3) What the girl says is PARTLY true and partly exaggeration.
None of us know. But the 3rd choice seems more likely
Still really CREEPY Moseley.
Take off your creepy glasses, Lady. I think everything you look at must look creepy through those glasses.
And how can someone be creepy living 3,000 miles away?
For someone that is 3000 miles away, sure seems to think he has it all figured out. Now that’s creepy!
I’ve had time to ponder on this a bit, and I’m a bit bothered by it. Mr. Moseley your thought on this matter is just that “thoughts” and you should really keep them to yourself. Because unless your a family member or a close friend you NO right to say what you did. I really feel sorry for you and that you have nothing better to do then say horrible things about someone you don’t even know. I’m going to pray for you Mr. Moseley, and hope that one day you realize what you said about this girl was hurt full either way.
JFK: My thoughts are only cautions. And I have always been very, very clear about that.
As I have always said, I don’t know what happened BUT NEITHER DO YOU. Even if you are the girl’s family member, you don’t know what actually happened.
The target of my comments is and has always been people who BELIEVE they know what happened, when they don’t. I don’t know, either.
But unfortunately, this is not a private matter any more. To the extent that it has been made a very public matter, the approach you suggest is not viable.
The family members of the girl most assuredly feel strongly about it. And that is their experience. In their experience, they might wish not to have others commenting. But it is too late for that.
You can’t deal with a question of public discussion as if it were a private matter, no matter how much you wish it to be private. It ain’t.
A lot of activists making very public accusations against someone who could very well be entirely innocent is not something we can just ignore.
Political officials demanding that someone resign from office who might be entirely innocent is not something you can sweep under the rug of the family’s feelings.
I have not said anything about what is true, because I don’t know and you don’t know what is true.
However, I have illustrated how very, very wrong it is to jump to conclusions.
JFK: Haven’t you ever heard the story of the Catholic priest (it’s a story, not an actual priest) who is witnessed repeatedly traveling to the cheesy part of town and giving money to a known prostitute and disappearing with her? Finally, the priest is confronted for visiting a prostitute and giving her money.
Then you find out that it is his sister — his actual biological sister — and he is pleading with her to go straight and leave her life of sin and giving her money so she will have money to live without doing anything immoral.
Makes a difference when you hear the other side of the story, JFK, doesn’t it?
And realizing that about life is part of growing up.
I have not said anything hurtful to anyone because I have not claimed that anything is true — only that you don’t know what you think you know, and we shouldn’t talk about a man as if he is guilty when we do not know that.
I have also said that if Vance Phillips is actually guilty he deserves the electric chair and there will be a special place in hell where he should be tormented for eternity.
Moseley,
On the topic of what actually happened-
This teenager’s boyfriend never went out of his way to “expose” her. So, where do you get the idea (or proof) that he did? He only encouraged her to tell the truth the day that the investigators came knocking on her door.
In my response to you originally, I was only addressing your “hypothesis” when you said, “And the reality is that the girl in this situation is far more likely to be lying about her relationship with Vance BECAUSE SHE IS AFRAID TO TELL HER FAMILY THE TRUTH.”
I, in no way, was defending your thinking on this. I was just pointing out that your statement didn’t make any sense. “IF” she was so driven by fear about her family finding out, she would also be too driven by fear and paralyzed to tell the police anything! Anyone, (even with young common sense) would know that the only way anyone would know the truth for certain in this matter, is if Vance or herself spoke up.
She obviously and certainly knew that Vance was not going to be the one to uncover himself in any way.
Therefore, her biggest fear was clearly not about her family finding out (which was what you were suggesting originally). What she said was that she was fearful of his threats.
Now, the tone of the “anonymous letter” (even though it was full of proven false and inaccurate information) stated nothing about ANY details pertaining to “kinky sex and BSDM adventures”.
The letter only suggested that he/she had knowledge of Vance being inappropriate with an underaged girl. Again, it NEVER gave any details.
So why are you saying that because of this letter, “she would have to explain to her family why she was having kinky sex and BSDM adventures with a married man.”??
Why in the world would a teenager who (according to you) is too afraid to tell her family and too afraid to lie to the police, make up, and file a 17 page complaint with horrific details that NO ONE even knew about! Surely, she could have spared herself the public humiliation!
You are publicly inserting lies and putting a spin on this case to confuse the truth. What is your motivation for that? Your opinion is not based on facts.
The fact is, no one knew anything about the acts that took place before she made the decision to tell them. She had nothing to explain about any details until she spoke out. The details in her complaint were not know by anyone until she stood up.
Yes, this case is an open case at this point, but who do you think you are to make public comments like,
“Already uncomfortable or feeling shame about having done those very strange things, and sleeping with a married man, which is one of the problems with dating a younger woman who may not be fully at peace with her sexual feelings and instincts, the woman now had to confront her family about all of this.”
For one, who ever said they were “dating” as a fact? No one.
You act like this is some kind of fictional story that you get your jolly’s off of, and get to pick the most likely ending.
However, to bring it back to the intended topic, which was, “Whether or not Vance Phillips can mount a credible campaign for re-election”, the answer is NO.
P.S. Don’t ever send flowers to the girls father or grandfather that is accusing you of being inappropriate with! That would be just CREEPY!!
You act like this is some kind of fictional story that you get your jolly’s off of, and get to pick the most likely ending.
To the extent that we don’t know what is true, it may as well be a fictional story.
What bothers me and should bother everyone is the attitude that (a) if a story is salacious, therefore it is true, (b) if a story would be bad if it were true, therefore it is true, (c) if you don’t like the person about whom the story is told, therefore it is true.
We would be far better treating this as a fictional story until the evidence is presented one way or the other.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What she said was that she was fearful of his threats.
Which makes absolutely no sense. It is simply not believable that a young woman, no matter how young or gullible, would believe the supposed threats that she reports. Anyone who has seen a rerun of “Law and Order” on TV would know that she could go to the police and that a local County Commissioner is not capable of carrying out any supposed threats.
And the fact that she kept going back again and again voluntarily — by her own admission — destroys the credibility of her claims to feel threatened. The idea that she would feel threatened by a local County Commissioner makes no sense. The idea that she would keep going back again and again under her own power just doesn’t make any sense. No one who has ever watched a crime drama on TV would hesitate for 1 minute running to the Delaware State Police or FBI and asking for help – if the story is true.
And finally we have the fact that DSP investigated all of this and DROPPED the investigation. Clearly after interviewing everyone, DSP did not believe the accusations we are hearing now were credible — or maybe those accusations never surfaced during the investigation.
If the evidence were credible, why didn’t DSP seek an indictment of Vance Phillips and arrest him? And, again, if there is credible evidence, Vance should be arrested and prosecuted and if convicted fry in the electric chair.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The letter only suggested that he/she had knowledge of Vance being inappropriate with an underaged girl. Again, it NEVER gave any details
But the letter led to a serious criminal investigation, in which — we must presume — the DSP interviewed EVERYONE. It is very intimidating to have serious criminal investigators flashing badges demanding to know what happened.
According to the lawsuit, there were many witnesses. Farm hands working for Vance were nearby as the girl arrived at a farmhouse with Vance and as they left. The building was set up for BSDM and kinky sex, so if the farm hands looked inside — or listened from outside — they would know what was going on. They would see the BSDM implements and the hook for rope bolted into the ceiling.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The fact is, no one knew anything about the acts that took place before she made the decision to tell them. She had nothing to explain about any details until she spoke out. The details in her complaint were not know by anyone until she stood up.
We don’t know that. We do know that the DSP investigated this, at the request of the General Assembly, after the entire General Assembly and the entire world received the Anonymous Letter. So we have to presume that all of the details DID surface when you have the DSP questioning everyone.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bottom line: Since the girl’s story of feeling threatened doesn’t hang together, it does make more sense that the girl is more afraid of telling her family that she did things that feels regret doing and doesn’t know why she did them in the first place – because those feelings are strange and hard to understand.
If Vance were sending threatening text messages, the DSP could have gotten those under a subpoena, and they would have as a reflexive, knee-jerk matter of course.
If these things were actually happening, the girl could have gone to the FBI (kidnapping, which actually does qualify, technically) is a federal offense or the DSP. They could have rigged up a “wire” and surveillance in the room, and had the place surrounded to protect her safety. If she were threatened to go back again to another meeting, a SWAT team could have arrested him and he would still be behind bars, with good grounds for denying bail.
You say “if these things were actually happinging, she could of gone to the FBI or DSP”. LOL! I’ve solved the crime. Mr Moseley did you happen to fall from the sky and bump your head?
The girl reports an ON-GOING, continuing course of conduct.
You say you have solved crimes — after the fact.
And if the complaining witness tells you that it is still going on now, in the present tense?
What I said, and I thought fairly clearly, is that the DSP could have planted a “wire” on her and/or in the room, and caught him in the act.
You may have solved crimes, trying to reconstruct what happened in the past.
But if you could get a recording of the perpetrator admitting to the crime or about to commit the crime, how hard would it be to prosecute crime?
The girl reports an ON-GOING, continuing course of conduct.
You say you have solved crimes — after the fact.
And if the complaining witness tells you that it is still going on now, in the present tense?
What I said, and I thought fairly clearly, is that the DSP could have planted a “wire” on her and/or in the room, and caught him in the act.
You may have solved crimes, trying to reconstruct what happened in the past.
But if you could get a recording of the perpetrator admitting to the crime or about to commit the crime, how hard would it be to prosecute crime?
If you could get the perpetrator on tape, and wouldn’t have to prove anything at trial — the defendant would have to admit it — that would be a bargain, wouldn’t it, in terms of the use of resources?
Have you ever worked for DSP Mr. Moseley?
I have worked as a criminal defense attorney.
What is your argument, other than “argumentum ad hominem?”
The vast majority of criminal investigation involves trying to reconstruct what happened in the past using only clues about the past.
The opportunity to catch a criminal in the very act, or in the attempt to protect the complaining witness, is dramatically different.
Law enforcement uses female cops wired for sound to catch men in the act of soliciting prostitution.
You are arguing that if tipped off to a CONTINUING, REPEATED crime, the DSP would be unable to catch Vance Phillips in the act?
That is not a ringing endorsement of the DSP. Remember we had this long debate about how we don’t need a Sheriff because the DSP is so competent and capable. In fact, it was that feud that apparently brought this scandal to light.
If a gas station was robbed repeatedly, and the DSP was told that the robbers would be back there again at 3:30 PM on Tuesday, you want to tell us that the DSP would be unable to show up and catch the robbers in the act?
Sounds to me that what you are telling us about DSP is far more significant than anything about Vance Phillips, because it potentially affects thousands of Delawareans. So is there something seriously deficient about DSP?
The girl’s story is that Vance Phillips would TELL HER when and where she was to meet him at a hotel or at a farm house (a minor farm building with a residence in it), while committing the acts that are criminal under Delaware law and Federal law of threatening her if she did not show up at the appointed time and place.
That’s where the girl’s story completely breaks down, leading to the search for a more plausible explanation for the whole scenario.
All she would have to do is make one phone call: “He called me again and told me to go to the Quality Inn in Dover, Room 317. He will be there at 3:00.”
If the DSP is unable to solve that crime, then the voters of Delaware need to know a lot more about what is really going on inside DSP.
The DSP could previously have provided a hidden microphone in her purse, recorded the conversation, and then burst into the hotel room and arrested Vance.
Wow! No wonder! A Criminal Defense Attorney! You keep saying “what if what she is saying is a lie” well what if what she is saying is true?
Do you have any reason to believe that what the girl is saying is true?
This seems to reveal your attitudes — and perhaps everyone’s attitudes — from within themselves, not what the evidence shows.
Why do you assume that anything the girl is saying is true?
Apparently simply because you want to believe the worst about all men or perhaps you had a bad experience and assume it is true of everyone or you think that women aren’t believed.
But this isn’t about categories. It is about an individual man and an individual woman. Just one man. Just one woman.
And the truth is not a political football.
Jon Moseley wrote: “If I were Vance’s lawyer or confidant, I would be urging Vance Phillips to devote 100% of his time to fighting the lawsuit, not dividing his time between the County Council and the courtroom.”
Phillips has a very aggressive team of lawyers fighting the lawsuit on his behalf. They have issued subpoenas to ATT Mobile and Verizon Wireless for cellphone records, to Urquhart and the Glen Urquhart for Congress campaign, to Mike Stafford, to People’s Place II, to 2 medical doctors, to psychological counselors, and to the accuser’s fiance, who will deposed later this month. They have taken dispositions from the accuser and subpoenaed documents from her. They have on several occasions submitted sets of questions for her to answer in writing and they have submitted several sets of statements, where she has to admit or deny each one or explain why she is unable to admit or deny. Phillips’ legal team is all over the place. Hers is not. I can’t easily see what Phillips could do to fight the lawsuit that his legal team is not already doing.
Those sound like unusually good lawyers, and it is a bit disturbing if the girl’s lawyers are dragging their feet. It bothers me if we don’t know what the truth is simply because one side has an aggressive legal team and the other side drops the ball. Unfortunately, in my experience most lawyers are not very “good” — which often means they are capable but lack motivation or determination. So I hope for everyone’s sake that we get to the truth in all fairness.
My hunch would be that the girl’s family might not have enough money to pay for their lawyer to do a lot of work, and that is also sad.
But I still think Vance Phillips shouldn’t divide his attention. He can if he wants to. He doesn’t need my permission or anyone else’s. But the risk is too great. If he loses when he could have won, it will haunt him the rest of his life. So it just isn’t worth it in my opinion.
Thank God he lost. She is not the first Republican female he has harassed,
but thank God she will be the last.
Somehow I doubt that…..tigers can’t change their stripes
He will just have less power to intimidate them with….and he can exactly run after them in the literal sense
But once a predator always a predator
True, Laffter, how true. He had a way of convincing us women that he had our best interests at
heart. But once a predator, always a predator.
Only in Sussex county can a party win and run perverts, fears, megalomaniacs and bitter clingers. The good people in Sussex county would do well with someone who can do more than rubber stamp ugly plastic housing developments where they houses come in pieces put together by illegals. How about living wage jobs, cultural amenities and some damn roads to get all these cheap skate tax dodging retirees to their $300K homes that no one here can afford. Protect the constitution LMAO