SCAAG Wins!

Sussex County  Well chalk up another blow to economic growth, delivered by Sussex Countians Against All Growth (SCAAG).   Anyone living in Sussex County should be well aware of the proposed, development project, known as the Overbrook Towne Center (OTC). And the controversy surrounding the request for a change of zoning.

I am not going to rehash all of my arguments about why this should have been approved. This has now moved beyond what the council should have done, it is time to take note of what the council, did do.

Let me say, just how shocked I am with the vote on this request. The vote was 4 to 1, Councilman Rob Arlett being the only vote in favor of granting the request. Let me say, many, my self included, had felt Mr. Arlett was a possible no vote. I was wrong. This is not nearly as shocking, (my readers will attest to that), as my complete shock, that one of the staunchest property rights proponent on the council, Sam Wilson, voted to deny the developer their property rights.

Everyone knew Joan Deaver would vote against it, because she believes a place should stay exactly as it was, five minutes after you arrive, and never change.

George Cole was no real surprise voting against it, he has a bit of a anti-business attitude, stay tuned to the Council next week when they begin the attack on business signs.

Now, on a more personal note, my council person, Council President Mike Vincent voted no. I cannot express how severely disappointed I am, and again how shocked I am, that someone I considered well grounded in his views of property rights, would so abuse them.

I have not read, nor heard firsthand, the remarks of the individual council members prior to casting their votes. But, I have been told by two separate people,  Mr. Vincent referenced his concern, the FAA might decide to prohibit aerial spraying of crops, if the mall were to be built. Really Mr. Vincent? SOOOOOOOOOO! Mr. Vincent, did you contact the FAA? Did you ask for an official opinion from the FAA on the proposal, and whether they would prohibit aerial spraying? Seems that something so important, might warrant some extra effort. Maybe you could have read that into the record before your vote.

It is  more likely you heard someone say this, and latched onto it as an excuse to vote no?

I have to be honest, I can’t come up with one single idea for why Mike Vincent and Sam Wilson would vote this down, after the Planning and Zoning Board had recommended approval.

I live on the west side of the county, and the people I talk to over here, say bring it. We would love to have a mall on our side of the county. Instead of spending our money in Salisbury. The council just voted no to all sorts of revenue for the county and the state. Good job folks.

This entire controversy is rife with hypocrisy. You have Sussex County Council members who talk about rights, and being business friendly, and yet there actions speaks otherwise. Think about some of the things the council has voted down lately.

An RV park in the Angola area. A water park outside of Millsboro. Both things you would expect in a vacation resort. But nooooooooo! SCAAG says no. If it didn’t exist five minutes after I arrived, then it can never be allowed.

The other hypocrites, are the people who oppose the proposal. Go to the meetings, and listen to the accents. These people weren’t born here. They ignore the fact, the place where their homes are sitting, were once open fields and woods, in which animals lived and played, where the water ran quietly and clean, through the daisies, and the breeze blew gently over your sun kissed skin.

The real hypocrisy is the fact, if any one of them had the chance to sell their property for the money the farmer sold for, they would take it in a second. Just say, one of these SCAAG members, maybe even the president of the SCAAGs, had some dumpy little place on some hell’s half-acre of a lot, on a piece of land, which anywhere but the beach, would be considered marsh land, and say they had the chance to sell their lovely peaceful, pristine personal slice of heaven for a million dollars. Only the buyer intends to turn the land into a hydraulic oil recycling center right next to the creek which runs behind their dream cottage, and there will be a sharp increase in traffic on the surrounding roads, which could never support the volume.

Do you really think for one minute, they wouldn’t take the money and run?

The Sussex County Council struck a blow today, a blow against freedom and property rights, they struck down potential jobs, and economic growth, they struck down revenue which could allow Sussex to see many more years of our county taxes not going up.

Instead of choosing to do that which would have benefitted the entire county and state, they chose to vote to benefit a small number of people in the immediate surrounding area.

Sam Wilson is very likely not running for re-election due to health concerns. This should make it very easy to defeat him if he does, or anyone he would endorse.

Mike Vincent is very likely now, to see a primary.

George Cole is safe until 2018, and considering he was supposedly drafted for the last run, he may not seek another term. Ah, maybe one too many.

If this is the type of votes we can expect in the future, then it may be time to flush the toilet. because this was a load of crap.

 

 

 

39 Comments on "SCAAG Wins!"

  1. Mike Rowe says:

    The zombie apocalypse must be near when I agree with every single word of a Frank Knotts blog. God help us all.

  2. Honi Soit says:

    i could be mistaken, but it sounds very much to me that Frank is a Sucofag: Sussex Countian for All Growth.

  3. Frank Knotts says:

    Honi, I am for the letter of the law. If the developers meet the requirements, then they shouldn’t be denied based on emotions.

  4. Pat Fish says:

    Mike Rowe I am with you.

    Frank I agree with every single word you wrote and you did a great job of it. I’ll include your post in a link in a post I am writing about it because why write it all again?

    I am so disappointed I am sputtering.

  5. Dave says:

    “If the developers meet the requirements”

    They did not meet requirements. The land is zoned AR1. They wanted to change it to CR1. So specifically they wanted the county to change to meet the developers requirements. The county is under no obligation to change the zoning, which presumably is zoned that way for specific reasons.

  6. Boobie says:

    A re-zoning is a change in the law. So calling someone out for not following the law is unfounded in this case. There’s a reason you can’t just file a form and get a re-zoning.

    For the record, and counter to your simplistic argument, I (and many others) am totally against the out-of-character Overbrook project, and 100% supportive of the similar Lingo Townsend project sites inside the proper area near the proper infrastructure.

  7. Dave says:

    “I live on the west side of the county, and the people I talk to over here, say bring it. We would love to have a mall on our side of the county.”
    Exactly! And if the OTC was proposed for Western Sussex, there would not have been a peep of opposition. Why? Because Western Sussex is underserved; people need jobs (they currently have to travel east along with the tourist for jobs); it would not have added to the near gridlock on Rt1; and people in the east would have been glad to be able to travel west to shop during the season (they, including me, stay off of Rt1 during the season); and it would not have siphoned business from the outlets, which provide significant shopping opportunities for locals and tourists. In short, a Western Sussex Town Center would be the right thing in the right place.
    That would be smart planning and smart growth.

    Finally re: “These people weren’t born here.” You mean they weren’t Americans? The Nanticoke’s might want to have a word with you since you and they might have a lot in common. Isn’t the history of our nation centered on immigrants who came and shaped the land to build homes and create a life? Are you nativist now? And where do you draw the line – meaning how far back do you go before one can decide that you aren’t from here either?

    You want a town center on the west side of the county? Sign me up. Along Rt1? I’ll forever stand in opposition. Smart growth, not any growth.

  8. Steve Pepper says:

    It was the same with the building of Routee One. If we don’t build we won’t have more traffic. Vote them out and get people in office that have common sense. Many times I wish I had stayed in Georgetown.

  9. Fish Bites says:

    Just have Pat Fish build a fence around it and call it hers.

  10. Rick says:

    I (and many others) am totally against the out-of-character Overbrook project, and 100% supportive of the similar Lingo Townsend project sites inside the proper area near the proper infrastructure.

    Yeah. Today, King’s Highway only backs-up from Route 1 to the Gill’s Neck light. So, the “infrastructure” is no problem there. But infrastructure is a big problem at a cornfield miles from Lewes.

  11. delacrat says:

    Frank,

    I recall your recent job loss involved working overtime to support the missus’ shopping addiction.

    I would think you would leading the fight against another spending mall.

  12. Tom gambuti says:

    You sound like a spoiled little child who didn’t get his lollipop. Buck up son, I’m sure you can come up with another scam, my goodness, quit crying, it’s over, move on

  13. Frank Knotts says:

    Dave says, “They did not meet requirements. The land is zoned AR1. They wanted to change it to CR1.”
    Well Dave, this is from the Sussex County website, concerning the Planning and Zoning Commission.
    “The commission acts as an advisory board to the County Council on change of zone and conditional use requests, but has the authority to grant or deny subdivision applications. ”
    P&Z voted to recommend the Council, should vote to approve OTC. The Commission is an advisory board for a reason. These are the people who determine whether the applications has merit, and to consider if it is in line with the comprehensive plan.
    The process is two fold, one is the P&Z’s report to Council, and then the public hearings where the Council hears directly from the people. And this is where the Council has to decide, follow what your advisory board has recommended based on the County’s own code and plans, or do you listen to the emotional concerns of the people in the immediate area? In this case the Council went for the emotional. Maybe it’s not a good idea to have people who need to be re-elected, making these decisions?
    Boobie says, “A re-zoning is a change in the law. ” No, it’s not. The law is what explains how a change of zoning is to be considered. It is written into the law that change of zoning is permissible. If the request meets the criteria. Just hold your horses, you’re going to see what the law says about this, when the law suit comes, and it will most likely.
    So Boobie, you are against OTC but in favor of the Lingo project, which one do you live closest to?
    Delacrat, I deny my wife nothing, you guys only get me here, you should try living with me.
    Look what this really comes down to. The people who were in opposition in large numbers, are older retired people, the “Grey Wave” if you will, who have a lot of time on their hands to organize, and money to spend since some of them got rich by selling their land in high tax rate states and moving here. Ironic? No, just hypocritical.
    Those in support of OTC, in large numbers are younger people, with children, small businesses to run, working people, who have little time to organize, and money is tight because economic growth is blocked at every turn by SCAAGs.
    But we may yet see a turn around. After all have you seen how many older movie stars have been passing away?
    And to Tom gambuti, you’re right, I am pissed off, because as I see it, when the Council blocks potential economic growth, they are setting the stage for higher taxes. Just look to the Federal model.

  14. Honi Soit says:

    Frank, perhaps it will console you that the legislature is helping to spur economic growth in Sussex by fast-tracking the building of a psychiatric hospital in Georgetown. Floor vote is expected today. Brian Pettyjohn is sponsor of the bill. He says that in Sussex County “there is a huge need for mental health services.” Can’t argue with that.

  15. delacrat says:

    Honi,

    A psychiatric hospital would be better than a “town center” for treating Compulsive Buying Disorder.

  16. mouse says:

    Is rezoning an entitlement for wealthy connected people?

  17. mouse says:

    I think we should just let every speculator do what they want. It’s such a shame to miss out on all those strip malls with payday loan stores with all those living wage jobs. Sussex county could be beautiful like New Castle county with cement and asphalt covering everything and generic high density plastic beige houses everywhere.

  18. Tired of the Retired says:

    A psychiatric hospital would be better than a “town center” for treating Compulsive Buying Disorder.

    It’s not “compulsive buying” that’s driving developers to propose new shopping centers like Overbrook and Lingo Townsend, it’s the lack of stores with the things young families living in Sussex need.

    The retirees in Sussex need to understand that there are people living in the county that are actually raising families, and they need certain supplies, they need jobs, they need to know that when their children go off to college there is hope that they will actually be able to move home and find work. And while people “poo poo” retail jobs, many Sussex Countains would be thrilled to manage a retail store, retail stores do have good paying managerial jobs, I know that is an affront to the myth that retail is all minimum wage, but it’s true. Thank you for denying us those jobs, a*******.

    Since all of these retirees refuse to let Sussex expand, we need to demand that retirees be denied the school tax breaks and other tax breaks they get for just managing to get old. You won’t allow jobs for our families and our children? Fine. Pay the extra taxes that you whine to be exempted from and contribute to our children’s futures by stepping up to fund our schools with FULL SCHOOL TAX PAYMENTS. Otherwise STFU and move back to NJ, we’re tired of exporting our educated children because it takes you 5 minutes longer to get your senior discount at Walgreens.

  19. Frank Knotts says:

    And Honi, the psychiatric hospital will give the Sussex GOP a new place to hold their meetings.

  20. Dave says:

    “lack of stores with the things young families living in Sussex need. ”

    Such as?

  21. Dave says:

    “when their children go off to college there is hope that they will actually be able to move home and find work. And while people “poo poo” retail jobs, many Sussex Countains would be thrilled to manage a retail store, retail stores do have good paying managerial jobs,”

    So college educated kids should aspire to manage a retail store? Might I suggest that if that is their aspiration or your aspiration for them, that you and they can save a boat load of money because you do not need a college degree to manage a retail store. In fact, I would be willing to bet that most of the managers in the retail stores here in Sussex County do not have a 4 year degree.

    And very few retail stores have good paying managerial jobs which is why many of their managers hold down second jobs.

    If you would do some research, instead of just blindly spouting what you heard or read somewhere, you would know what industries offer better paying jobs and where they are located and would be encouraging your children to go forth and grab the brass ring instead of coming back here. Or you would be encouraging the county council to start pursuing more technology oriented jobs in areas like aviation mechanics, information technology, and other things that actually do provide good paying jobs. Finally, just how many managerial positions do you think OTC would create anyway? Not everyone gets to me a manager.

  22. Tired of the Retired says:

    Such as?

    Sporting goods. Baseball bats, football padding, football cleats, soccer cleats, baseball cleats, shin guards, baseball gloves, lacrosse pads, lacrosse sticks, batting helmets.

    You can’t play high school sports with the equipment you get at Walmart, and the Nike outlet doesn’t have the quality equipment you can get at a Dick’s Sporting Goods.

    How many people do you know who buy their prom and evening gowns at the outlets? The answer would be “none.” I’m sorry if it offends you that people living in Sussex don’t want to buy everything from Walmart or buy factory seconds just so people like you don’t have to sit in traffic. Please feel free to GFY.

    And maybe you’re the one who needs to do some research, here are the median salaries from Target:
    http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=Target_Corporation/Salary#by_Job

    Employer: Target Corporation Median Salary by Job

    National Salary Data 

    Store Team Leader
    48 salaries
    $81,607

    Pharmacist
    41 salaries
    $118,194

    Business Analyst (Unspecified Type)
    35 salaries
    $54,761

    Human Resources (HR) Manager
    35 salaries
    $63,685

    Sales Team Leader, Retail
    35 salaries
    $53,387

    Executive Team Lead
    34 salaries
    $54,221

    Operations Team Leader
    34 salaries
    $61,703

    Do you really think that the Operations managers, who do store budgets or the HR managers for Walmarts, Targets, Macy’s, etc. don’t have college degrees? Foolishness. Do some research of your own.

    It sickens me how these snobs degrade hard working, educated people who are putting food on their tables and raising families with retail jobs.

  23. Dave says:

    Ok. Sporting goods and prom dresses = 850,000 square feet worth. Got it.

    And I don’t need to do the research because you need to complete your own research first and determine the criteria by which such companies as Target, et al make decisions on where to locate stores. I can guarantee you that a Store Team Leader in Northern Virginia would be making somewhere close to about 75K. When I say Northern Virginia, I mean the second richest county in the entire continental United States. And if you think that’s the kind of salary that will be obtained in a county where the median income is $53,505 and the total retail sales per capita is, $15,449 you need to do some more homework.

    It may be that sometime in the future, the area will reach the right numbers in terms of demographics, disposable income, median income, etc. necessary for these larger stores to consider the area viable, but I assure you, that’s not today and it’s not this decade. Do you think that Target doesn’t look at it’s sales revenue for Dover and breakdown the demographics? If they thought there was an opportunity here, they would be here.

    Same thing with all the folks that think Wegmans, Trader Joes, et al would come rushing in. Store locations are data driven decisions. If you don’t know the data they use, there is no possible way for you to make any intelligent assessments as to who would locate here or why.

    Need a mall? About 30 minutes up the road.

  24. Tired of the Retired says:

    The nearest mall is over 45 minutes up the road, and do you really think that a developer was going to sink millions of dollars into a project without doing market research on the area? If that’s what you think, you’re really not worth having this discussion with.

  25. Boobie says:

    There was a perfectly good local sporting goods store behind Wawa in Lewes for years. But people failed to shop there, so it closed. Largely because people can get pretty much anything they want on demand in 2 days from Amazon. Not exactly a screaming endorsement of market demand for a local sporting goods store.

    But of course, that store was locally owned, and the profits stayed in the community. This center would be filled with global chain stores, specifically designed to suck as much wealth out of as many communities as possible, making every town look the same. And they’d be paying rent to an out-of-state landlord. So our community would be poorer as a result, not better off. And our farmers would be worse off, and the Marsh would be worse off. Who would benefit again? People who need lacrosse sticks, but don’t have computers or mailboxes?

  26. Rick says:

    So college educated kids should aspire to manage a retail store? Might I suggest that if that is their aspiration or your aspiration for them, that you and they can save a boat load of money because you do not need a college degree to manage a retail store. In fact, I would be willing to bet that most of the managers in the retail stores here in Sussex County do not have a 4 year degree.

    And very few retail stores have good paying managerial jobs which is why many of their managers hold down second jobs.

    My son graduated from George Washington University in May of ’13. During his senior year, Nike opened a store in the Georgetown section of D.C., a major shopping district, within walking distance of his dorm. It is a high-end “showplace” Nike store. After graduating, he stayed at Nike while looking for a job in his field, and quickly moved-up to a management position. Parenthetically, since he was fluent in Russian, he became liaison for Washington Capitals star Alexander Ovechkin and his family. Eventually, he was offered a job with a large IT corporation (CSC), and accepted. The Nike vice-president for East Coast operations scheduled a meeting with my son and offered him a 20k raise, on the spot, to stay with Nike. He politely declined.

    An individual in retail can advance if they apply themselves. How much do you think upper- management makes at the Nike outlet (or Polo, Old Navy and so on)? I can guarantee it’s pretty good for Sussex. And that’s a key. Some people want to stay here, by the beach, and so they need a job here. They don’t want to move to Washington or Philadelphia. So, hotel management, restaurant management and retail management are good career moves. Not everyone can be a physician.

    If you would do some research, instead of just blindly spouting what you heard or read somewhere…

    Maybe you should follow your own advice.

  27. Dave says:

    Personal anecdotes do not constitute data for research purposes. Still, good for your son.

  28. Rick says:

    Dave, I would guess that he is one of many who used retail as a springboard. Granted, he did it by necessity, but it still worked.

    Funny thing is, his major at GWU was International Affairs. He tried the CIA, State Dept. and other government agencies but ended-up in IT. Not as a technical guy, but as a manager- skills he learned in retail.

    When we think of IT, we think of systems guru’s, but remember, no matter how good your product is, it still has to be sold. Salespeople at CSC and other large IT corporations often make $200-$300k per-year in commissions. They are typically higher-paid than the computer science people who design and package the product.

  29. Dave says:

    “When we think of IT, we think of systems guru’s”

    Silicon Valley is hiring poets: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/04/07/why-poets-are-flocking-to-silicon-valley/

    The mistake people make is exactly what you articulated. IT does require systems engineers, but sales people are the tip of the spear. Just because someone builds a better mousetrap does not mean the world will beat a path to their door.

    I was the project manager at Stanford Linear Accelerator Center on a high energy particle physics accelerator and detector, which was so long that we had to account for the curvature of the earth when firing the beams. We were colliding beams to generate anti-matter. Long story, so I’ll shorten it by saying that I’m not a physicist, but I can manage them very well.

    Your son will create more opportunities for himself by doing those things that are outside of his swim lane. So being in IT will help considerably. Companies and federal agencies want breadth as well as depth. There are a lot of opportunities inside of CSC as well as every place else in NVA. I’m sure he’ll do well.

  30. Frank Knotts says:

    If we take the personal points out of the story, I think we see from rick’s tale, that you can’t always plan your success, you can only work towards success, and the end may not be what you had in mind when you started.
    You could say the same for the Council’s views on which request are granted. Stores v. Houses.
    P&Z just approved another 200+ housing development, it will be telling if this gets approved. It will say, build all the homes you want, but don’t dare to build anything that might create jobs outside the building industry or the agriculture industry.
    This may simply be the light that shines on the need for new blood within the council, people not prone to caving to emotional rhetoric, and people who have a vision for the future beyond the past.

  31. mouse says:

    And I heard that if you don’t sign in to the GOP meetings at the new psyc hospital, nurse Ratched will lock you in the closet with the mop bucket.

  32. mouse says:

    When I grow up, I want to manage a Candy Kitchen store and have a 2nd job sitting up beach umbrellas for retired women in North Shores

  33. Rick says:

    I was the project manager at Stanford Linear Accelerator Center on a high energy particle physics accelerator and detector…

    Pretty impressive, Dave. My stepfather was an engineer with the Navy Dept., who worked on our nuclear weapons program for thirty years (starting with “Operation Crossroads,” the ’46 Bikini Atoll test), and as you know, the engineers were brilliant men in their field, but they usually made lousy managers, I suppose because of their singularity of focus.

    And I heard that if you don’t sign in to the GOP meetings at the new psyc hospital, nurse Ratched will lock you in the closet with the mop bucket.

    Mouse, are you scurrying-about the Shockley Center?

    I don’t know much about it, but doesn’t the Shockley Center have a lot of acreage in Sussex? Isn’t it fairly close to Georgetown? Isn’t it a psychiatric hospital? Why do we need a new facility?

  34. Tired of the Retired says:

    There was a perfectly good local sporting goods store behind Wawa in Lewes for years. But people failed to shop there, so it closed. Largely because people can get pretty much anything they want on demand in 2 days from Amazon. Not exactly a screaming endorsement of market demand for a local sporting goods store. But of course, that store was locally owned, and the profits stayed in the community.

    The reason World Cup Sports folded was because they charged significantly higher prices than Dicks, the Sports Authority and Amazon for sporting goods. Parents traveled to Dover to shop for the same items because what they saved more than covered what they paid in gas.

  35. Fish Bites says:

    “because what they saved more than covered what they paid in gas”

  36. Fish Bites says:

    “because what they saved more than covered what they paid in gas”

    Retail stores in general have become showrooms for internet shoppers. You go to the store, take a look at the merchandise, decide which you like, and then go home and buy it online cheaper.

  37. Rick says:

    That’s what I do when I need a new motorcycle helmet. Go to Dover, try on the model I plan to buy to get the right size, then get a $700 helmet for $500 online with more color choices.

    I wouldn’t bother if it meant a $10 savings, but I do it to save $200.

    If you wonder why anyone would buy a $500 helmet, ask yourself; how much is your head worth? A cheap helmet is little better than no helmet. Personally, I use Arai.

  38. meatball says:

    The Stockley Center in G-town houses adults and children with developmental disabilities. Currently, Sussex County has not one single in patient psych bed for acute or chronic psychiatric care. Instead they clog up emergency departments until a bed becomes available in Kent or New Castle counties. The best part….they are then transported there by a state police trooper in a state police cruiser.

    The company that wants to build in G-town, SUN Behavioral Health, is a for profit company that expects to employ nearly 200 workers there. Additionally, the facility itself will cost them $20 million to build.

    No one in the medical field in Sussex County disputes the need for this facility or the local continuum of psychiatric care they plan to provide . The opposition is from a competing, for profit center in New Castle County that fears they will lose business.

  39. mouse says:

    More living wage jobs than the stinkin circus mall on rt 1

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