“Saint” John Rieley

john Rieley  Let me make it perfectly clear, I did not pick this particular fight, but if Mr. Rieley feels the need, well who am I to deny him?   Early Sunday morning, a friend sent me a screen shot from John Riley’s Facebook page.

John FB

So as we can all see, I am living rent free in Mr. Rieley’s head. He is so consumed with my view-point he has to pull out Billy Graham to refute me. But there seems to be just a few things wrong here.

First of all, notice that Mr. Rieley says, “Billy Graham explains why that is not true”. First problem, while the article he is referencing is at Billy Graham.org, it is actually written by a man named, Albert Mohler .

Second problem, I read only just small portion of the article, when I came across the first example of Mr. Mohler doing a little Christian spinning.  http://billygraham.org/decision-magazine/december-2013/do-christians-and-muslims-worship-the-same-god/

Mr. Mohler quotes Exodus 3:14 as saying, “I Am who I Am”, in answering Moses’ question of what to call God.  Well that didn’t sound just right, so I checked my Bible, and an online Bible, and both have Exodus 3:14 as, “And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you”.

Mr. Mohler goes on making his case that Islam does not worship the same God as Christians by using this quote, “The Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.”

The problem is, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, is the same God of Ishmael, Abraham’s first born, who is recognized as the forbearer of Islam. Ishmael worshipped his father, Abraham’s God, the same God as the Jews, and the same God as Christians.

The case being made by Mr. Mohler, and thus by John Rieley, is that because the Muslims do not accept Jesus as the Son of God, and do not recognize the Holy Trinity, then they are not worshipping the same God.

This is hair-splitting at best, and bigotry at worse. Obviously the three major religions in the world are worshiping the one true God, the God of Abraham, the question comes down to each’s interpretation, and understanding, but more importantly, their faith.

So what sparked John Riley to call me out on his Facebook page? Well I had called into the Jared Morris Show on Delaware 105.9, on which he was discussing the topic.   Here is a link to that segment, I am the first caller.

At around the 3:45 mark I state that Islam is the continuation of the Old and New Testament, according to the Muslim belief, I also state, “we may not as Christians hold that to be true”. So you see, I recognize that we share the same God with the Jewish faith, and the Muslim faith, while also recognizing that all three have very different beliefs about Jesus and other prophets.

As a side-note, it is interesting that people making this argument have to do some impressive twisting to not also say that the Jewish faith does not worship the same God as the Christians.

So you see, Mr. Rieley chose to take my words out of context and use them in an attempt to say something about me that was not true, using what I feel is a questionable article to re-enforce his viewpoint.

And if that is not bad enough? He chose to do it on his Facebook page, which I am completely blocked from. I can’t even find him in a name search on FB. This point was brought up during the discussion by his fellow traveler Larry Mayo.

john fb 1

I have never blocked anyone on Facebook, I don’t even know how, I also have never unfriended anyone. So obviously the blocking was done on his end, but maybe he didn’t do it. Maybe, someone else has control of his computer, after all, the rumor is, he has had issues with his computer in the past.

I would have gladly joined the discussion, but he chose to have it where I could not defend myself. Nothing new, that trait runs in the family.

It will be interesting to see if he has the courage to come here and debate the issue with me, or will he again simply run and hide on his page, and along with his sycophants, talk about how stupid the truck driver is?

One other interesting comment, over in the land of the “OH SO SMART!”,   Ms. Rieley made this comment,

john fb 3

So, Ms. Rieley, are we to gather from the statement, “what I understand about the Koran”, that you have not actually read the Quran? Are you only talking, based on what you have been told by others? In your home school, do you not teach beyond what you already hold to be true?

The arrogance of these people can be summed up in this statement by Mr. Rieley,

 

john fb 2 You see, if you have a differing opinion from that held by the Christian Taliban, then obviously you can’t even posses a Bible.

As always, we welcome the conversation here, we offer the top of the page for guest post, we hide from no one. I would greatly enjoy a guest post on this topic from Mr. Rieley. But of course he would never lower himself to participate here, but has no problem calling me out in his safe place.

 

23 Comments on "“Saint” John Rieley"

  1. Rick says:

    The sociopolitical system known as Islam is at war not only with the West- and civilization- but with itself.

    What does Allah say about the Sunni/Shia schism that he predetermined with the death of Mohammed? Nothing? That’s odd.

    My Finnish friend says that Odin is the same God, too.

  2. Frank Knotts says:

    I don’t know Rick, what does God say about the Baptist / Catholic schism?

  3. Fish Bites says:

    ” because the Muslims do not accept Jesus as the Son of God, and do not recognize the Holy Trinity, then they are not worshipping the same God.”

    Neither do Jews. Does the same argument apply to them?

  4. Frank Knotts says:

    Fishbites, I did address that question above, “As a side-note, it is interesting that people making this argument have to do some impressive twisting to not also say that the Jewish faith does not worship the same God as the Christians.”

  5. Rick says:

    …what does God say about the Baptist / Catholic schism?

    I think you probably mean the Protestant/ Catholic schism, but in any case, the Christians stopped killing each other over dogma centuries ago. The Christian religions underwent a reformation and in nations with a majority Christian population the Bible is not the governing document. Western countries are not quasi-religious states where the “leadership” openly or tacitly calls for Holy War against the “infidel.”

    Unlike most of the Islamic world.

  6. fightingbluehen says:

    It’s like football. Football was first practiced and played in ancient Europe, and as the game developed through the ages, different regions and factions developed different rules for the game.
    Eventually they split into two factions: “Association Football/soccer”, and “Rugby Union”. The two games had many similarities, but the differences were evident. Eventually the game arrived in America, and was further altered into what is called American football.
    All originated from one game, and to this day have similar rules.

    One of the most interesting similarities between the religions of Islam and Christianity, is the shared belief in the “end of days prophecy”. In the Islamic version of the “end of days” though, Jesus ( who is considered a Muslim in the Islamic faith) comes to help fight for Islam against the Romans (that’s Christianity and the west in case you didn’t know).

    You can look also look back and see that the roots of the Abrahamic religions started towards the end of Egyptian civilization when monotheistic beliefs morphed into the beginnings of Judaism.

  7. Honi Soit says:

    The standard Arabic greeting “Salam Alaikum” means “Peace to you.” Long ago, I had a grammar question about this greeting and so I put it to one of the THOUSANDS of Muslims I have interacted with over many years. My question was why the plural pronoun “you” (“-kum”) is used even when greeting just one person. And the clever answer I got was that my friend could see the angel Gabriel standing over my shoulder, and so the plural is warranted. Gabriel is recognized as an angel in all three religions.

    I’m pretty much with Frank on this one.

  8. delacrat says:

    Why does it even matter whether christians, jews and muslims serve the same god or not ?

  9. fightingbluehen says:

    I don’t know. I guess that would be a question to ask the guy with the scimitar who is about to cut off someones’ head.

  10. delacrat says:

    “I guess that would be a question to ask the guy with the scimitar who is about to cut off someones’ head.” – frightenedbluehen

    Of course, why ask the guy flying a drone about to fire a Hellfire into a Pakistani village.

  11. fightingbluehen says:

    Apples, oranges.

  12. Rick says:

    Of course, why ask the guy flying a drone about to fire a Hellfire into a Pakistani village.

    Why wouldn’t we react to Muslim terrorism?

    Muslims flew aircraft into the World Trade Center. Remember that?

    The One True Leader in Iran- a cleric- shouts “death to America.” Not a few hundred years ago. Today. The Hold War and jihad are engrained into their psyche.

    If you and your ilk want to “submit” to Islam, be my guest. Just remember, no more LGBT rights, no education for women, no non-state-sponsored media and wives as chattel. Sounds great, huh?

    “Kill the Christian, Jew and the gay man too….woman, hide thy face and hold thy tongue. Submit! Praise Allah!”

  13. mouse says:

    It’s important for these extreme right wing hate mongers hiding behind religion to encourage all forms discord all the time. It’s either some religious dogma or sexual issues. How can people not see something so obvious?

  14. delacrat says:

    “Muslims flew aircraft into the World Trade Center. Remember that?” – Rick

    9/11 was 14 years ago. Get over it.

  15. Frank Knotts says:

    Delacrat asked, “Why does it even matter whether christians, jews and muslims serve the same god or not ?”
    Well Delacrat, because the Christian Taliban like John Rieley and Rick twist the truth out of hatred and fear. People like Rick label the entire religion of Islam as terrorist because of religious extremist who have wrapped their psychosis around Islam. Yet they don’t label all Christians as psychos because of Jim Jones and David Koresh. Both of these monsters were responsible for the deaths of innocent children in the name of Christ in their minds.

  16. Honi Soit says:

    Sez Rick: “The One True Leader in Iran- a cleric- shouts “death to America.” Not a few hundred years ago. Today.”

    Yes, but…

    President Rouhani stated in an interview on 60 Minutes in September that “This slogan that is chanted is not a slogan against the American people. Our people respect the American people, but at the same time the policies of the United States have been against the national interests of the Iranian people. It is understandable that people will demonstrate sensitivity to this issue.”

    http://time.com/4041040/iranian-president-death-to-america/

    And Supreme Leader Khamenei stated in November that “The slogan ‘death to America’ is backed by reason and wisdom; and it goes without saying that the slogan does not mean death to the American nation; this slogan means death to the U.S.’s policies, death to arrogance.”

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/04/middleeast/ayatollah-death-to-america/

    Iranian anger and distrust of the US hardly came from nowhere. Among their grievances: 1] The US installed the Shah and supported him in spite of his autocratic rule, widespread corruption in his government, and repression and use of torture by his secret spies (Savak); 2] the US supported Saddam Hussein’s attack on Iran in 1980, resulting in over 1 million Iranian deaths over 8 years of war.

  17. Rick says:

    The slogan ‘death to America’ is backed by reason and wisdom; and it goes without saying that the slogan does not mean death to the American nation; this slogan means death to the U.S.’s policies…blah, blah, blah…

    “Death to America” means death to America. I’m sick of your conciliatory parsing. They are religious fanatics, and if they get the bomb they’ll use it.

    It’s important for these extreme right wing hate mongers hiding behind religion to encourage all forms discord all the time.

    What the F are you talking about? Have I blown up the World Trade Center? Do I line-up rows of men and chop their heads off for religious purposes. Did I kill scores of civilians in Paris.

    No. Muslims did.

    What’s it going to take for you to get a clue- a nuclear blast in Washington or New York?

  18. delacrat says:

    “What’s it going to take for you to get a clue- a nuclear blast in Washington or New York?” – Rick

    Did you get a tree for your bunker this season ?

  19. mouse says:

    I’m more concerned that my social security will be eaten up with no bid military contracts and tax breaks for the one percent and there’s a much larger threat from people texting while driving then any terrorist.

  20. real deal says:

    Let’s say it is hotly disputed. http://www.letusreason.org/Islam6.htm

    Allah is the name of the only God in Islam. Allah is a pre-Islamic name coming from the compound Arabic word Al-ilah which means the God, which is derived from al (the) ilah (deity).

    The Arabic name for “God” is the word “Al-ilah.” It is a generic title for whatever god was considered the highest god. Different Arab tribes used “Allah” to refer to its personal high god. “Allah” was being worshipped at the Kaa’ba in Mecca by Arabs prior to the time of Mohammed. It was formerly the name of the chief god among the numerous idols (360) in the Kaaba in Mecca before Mohammed made them into monotheists. Historians have shown that the moon god called “Hubal” was the god to whom Arabs prayed at the Kaa’ba and they used the name “Allah” when they prayed.

    Today a Muslim is one who submits to the God Allah.

    Islam means submission to (Allah), but originally it meant that strength which characterized a desert warrior who, even when faced with impossible odds, would fight to the death for his tribe. (Dr. M. Baravmann, The Spiritual Background of Early Islam, E. J. Brill, Leiden, 1972)

    Many believe the word “Allah” was derived from the mid- eastern word “el” which in Ugaritic, Caananite and Hebrew can mean a true or false God. This is not the case, “The source of this (Allah) goes back to pre-Muslim times. Allah is not a common name meaning “God” (or a “god”), and the Muslim must use another word or form if he wishes to indicate any other than his own peculiar deity.” (Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics (ed. Hastings), I:326.)

    According to the Encyclopedia of Religion, Allah corresponded to the Babylonian god Baal, and Arabs knew of him long before Mohammed worshipped him as the supreme God. Before Islam the Arabs recognized many gods and goddesses, each tribe had their own deity. There were also nature deities. Allah was the god of the local Quarish tribe, which was Mohammed’s tribe before he invented Islam to lead his people out of their polytheism. Allah was then known as the Moon God, who had 3 daughters who were viewed as intercessors for the people into Allah. Their names were Al-at, Al-uzza, and Al-Manat, which were three goddesses; the first two daughters of Allah had names which were feminine forms of Allah. Hubal was the chief God of the Kaaba among the other 360 deities. Hubal was the chief God of the Kaaba among the other 360 deities. Hubal was a statue likeness of a man whose body was made of red precious stones whose arms were made of gold. (Reference Islam George Braswell Jr.)

    “Historians like Vaqqidi have said Allah was actually the chief of the 360 gods being worshipped in Arabia at the time Mohammed rose to prominence. Ibn Al-Kalbi gave 27 names of pre-Islamic deities…Interestingly, not many Muslims want to accept that Allah was already being worshipped at the Ka’ba in Mecca by Arab pagans before Mohammed came. Some Muslims become angry when they are confronted with this fact. But history is not on their side. Pre-Islamic literature has proved this.” (G. J. O. Moshay, Who Is This Allah? (Dorchester House, Bucks, UK, 1994), pg. 138).

    History has shown Mecca and the holy stone al-Kaaba were holy sites for pre-Islamic pagan Arabs. The Kaaba in Mecca was formerly named Beit-Allah meaning House of Allah. We are told it was first built in heaven. This is in contradistinction to what Moses was instructed to build, something overlooked by the Muslims in their reading of the Bible.

    The Koran tells us that Mohammed drove the other idols away; he made one God now the only god and he was its messenger. He kept the Kaaba as a holy, sacred place and confirmed that the black stone had the power to take away man’s sins. He obligated every believer to make a pilgrimage to the stone at least once in his lifetime. (Sura 22:26-37) No Old Testament saint ever had a pilgrimage to the Kaaba and kissed its black stone despite stories that Abraham and Ishmael restored it.

  21. real deal says:

    Read both perspectives from an historical perspective. Disagreeing with Islam does not make you a bigot. Opposing its aftermath does not make you an Islamophobe. Understanding that we need to support the Islamic reformers and mystics is just wise.

    The real deal is that you can disagree with Islam, yet love Muslims, treat them with respect, honor their dignity, help those in need, and support their human rights. 75% of Muslims understand this fact. Not understanding it seems to be the prerogative of the multicultural left and the Islamo-fascists.

  22. Frank Knotts says:

    Real deal, thank you for the reading material. As I am only just beginning to read the Quran I cannot state what is or is not fact. I do believe from my understanding of other reading, that Islam does worship the same God. If we believe there is but one God as Christians, then we must believe that even though others worship and believe different things about the one God, it must be the same God.
    I notice the second link hinges on the idea because Islam does not accept Jesus as Christ, this somehow means Muslims are worshipping a different God. Personally I believe that is spin at best, out of desperation.

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